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  1. #35
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    I don't know why BWF keeps thinking that the popularity of the sport has anything to do with unpredicted length and still want to shorten it. The current scoring system moves forward and will end eventually, within a reasonable time. On the other hand, tennis deuce and tie system can go on forever should both players have the determination. Didn't we hear news about tennis matches that last longer than 10 hours ?

    I don't understand, it's nothing to do with the length of the game. The current scoring system has given a good indication to spectators that the game will definitely end in 2 hours max, so I don't see the problem here.

    It's a better prediction and better organizing that is needed, no a change of the scoring system to make it shorter.
    Last edited by Wildstone; 03-12-2012 at 11:47 PM.

  2. #36
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    Two questions:1) Why 4? What s wrong with 5? BWF will have to answer that to fan, players,etc. if they can t reveal, it means they have something unsavoury to hide. 2) Would fans prefer an 80 min LCW vs LD OG final or 40 min one (for tie break)? Maybe they can make only Round 1 using tiebreak scoring. I can imagine major upsets, especially of CHN players.

  3. #37
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    I think for this event 35min per match is not that good especially for these high quality players, one would expect a set to take 15 to 20min and then add a couple of breaks , just try yourself to rally for a full 60 sec at their pace. We need to respect the players but also take out some stalling tactics , but this is sport and even at a social level after a hard earned point I need to recover so dont let the umpires spoil the game like in most other sports descretion needs to be applied! 5 courts is better if you are ahead of schedule you can always move back to 4 and officials can relax a little. 2am game is just stupid I dont take my dog for a run at that time
    Last edited by hiho1961; 03-13-2012 at 02:37 AM.

  4. #38
    Regular Member huangkwokhau's Avatar
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    Please note that as far as I know during INA open, been told each match needs 45 minutes..why suddendly 35? I guess it starts at 10 am whcih usually starts 9 am....4 courts is the rule...if needed..we can have extra days..in tennis , grand slam for 2 weeks..premier tennis is 10 or 11 days....if it is Super series premier..we can add extra day..please remember that not all SS finsihes at 3 am..ocassionally 12 something...Keeep scoring system.takes time to adapt and it is perfect....I my self prefer see match per match not 5 or 6 matches like GP..it is crazy...that's why badminton is not as popular as tennis....

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by huangkwokhau View Post
    Please note that as far as I know during INA open, been told each match needs 45 minutes..why suddendly 35? I guess it starts at 10 am whcih usually starts 9 am....4 courts is the rule...if needed..we can have extra days..in tennis , grand slam for 2 weeks..premier tennis is 10 or 11 days....if it is Super series premier..we can add extra day..please remember that not all SS finsihes at 3 am..ocassionally 12 something...Keeep scoring system.takes time to adapt and it is perfect....I my self prefer see match per match not 5 or 6 matches like GP..it is crazy...that's why badminton is not as popular as tennis....

    I agree. If tennis grand slam lasted for 2 full weeks, from monday until Sunday in the following week, why can't badminton last for 1 full week? Start the qualifying on Monday if needed. But actually there is no need to start on Monday, just have some of the 1st round on Tuesday night(especially those not involving qualifiers, to be fair to the qualifiers who have to play twice on Tuesday)

    Some fan do not mind watching from Monday onwards, some like to watch even qualification round.

  6. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildstone View Post
    I don't know why BWF keeps thinking that the popularity of the sport has anything to do with unpredicted length and still want to shorten it. The current scoring system moves forward and will end eventually, within a reasonable time. On the other hand, tennis deuce and tie system can go on forever should both players have the determination. Didn't we hear news about tennis matches that last longer than 10 hours ?

    I don't understand, it's nothing to do with the length of the game. The current scoring system has given a good indication to spectators that the game will definitely end in 2 hours max, so I don't see the problem here.

    It's a better prediction and better organizing that is needed, no a change of the scoring system to make it shorter.
    Quoted for truth. These clowns seem to think shorter = better. By that math why not just decide the match with a coin toss. Hell, we'll even let the Chinese team use a two headed coin for their matches.

    It amazes me that these clowns can't draw on an abundance of evidence to the contrary from Tennis. Witness the buzz about the recent epic final of the Australian Open. Where you had a match go on for over 4 hours! People were talking about it for days and no one was complaining about the length of time it took.

    I fully expect the next proposal from the BWF brain trust will be to take a page out of soccer or basketball and have matches played for a fixed time instead of to a set score. Picture it, whoever has the most point after 15 minutes wins. Of course 15 minutes might be a bit long.

  7. #41
    Regular Member AlanY's Avatar
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    I blame LYB for all these.
    Where are all those walkovers when you need them?

  8. #42
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    For what’s worth, the average time per match for 2011 AE on Day 1 was 35 mins compare to this year’s 42 mins and the total time on court was almost 10 hours longer that equated to about 2.5 hours/court.

    It’s just sod’s law. An extra day is not an option for commercial reason. Even an early start if the average stayed at the 40-45 mins wouldn’t work. That leaves the only option to have 5 courts or play some 1st round matches on the Day-1 (qualification day).

  9. #43
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildstone View Post
    I don't know why BWF keeps thinking that the popularity of the sport has anything to do with unpredicted length and still want to shorten it. The current scoring system moves forward and will end eventually, within a reasonable time. On the other hand, tennis deuce and tie system can go on forever should both players have the determination. Didn't we hear news about tennis matches that last longer than 10 hours ?

    I don't understand, it's nothing to do with the length of the game. The current scoring system has given a good indication to spectators that the game will definitely end in 2 hours max, so I don't see the problem here.

    It's a better prediction and better organizing that is needed, no a change of the scoring system to make it shorter.
    The purpose is to get tv exposure and if tv tells them we can only spare so much time the BWF tries/d to cater to them. Tennis has already established themselves so no point in comparing to it unless you take the situation for tennis 20-30-40 years ago.

    One game might have max 2 hours duration, now multiply that by 5 and try squeezing that in your timeslot. Of course they could just leave out some finals or spread it over two days which I have also suggested in the past with regards to getting tv coverage. Why not for example start the ladies on monday and finish on saturday and the men a day later + xd.
    Last edited by demolidor; 03-13-2012 at 06:45 AM.

  10. #44
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    For me (I was there on Wednesday) it has to be 5 courts, 4 is not enough to cope with the number of matches, it'd be pretty tight even if they were all won in straight games, I'd have thought.

    We gave up at 10pm and missed seeing Gade, Lin Dan etc. very disappointed.

    It was obvious by lunchtime that 4 courts wasn't providing enough capacity.

    The turnaround between matches seemed quick enough.

    They could of course shave off a few seconds by not telling us every single time that "the players will be lead out by the umpire and followed by court officials"! j/k (but it does sound silly, like making a big deal out of something so unimportant, makes our sport seem like it's trying too hard to sound 'grown-up' or something!)

  11. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy05 View Post
    The All-England is operating under new Super Series regulations from the Badminton World Federation requiring it to use four and not five courts, which contributed to a schedule which went on into the early hours of Thursday.
    http://www.nst.com.my/sports/badminton/badminton-hidayat-rages-at-all-england-s-never-ending-story-1.57602#ixzz1ofUyhJ8k

    Regulations from BWF not Badminton England, if the court turn round time was too much then that is a problem that needs to be sorted.
    Surely they could have adjusted start times accordingly however? The general format is the same for all ss events, right? So other tournaments must run late too?

    Unless it is the flexibility on the individual courts...ie they have a set schedule for each court, then if all those games go to three sets, there will be a big delay. If they just put the next games on the next available courts, then there would be less chance of a delay, however it would give less certainty and notice to the players..

  12. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanY View Post
    An extra day is not an option for commercial reason. Even an early start if the average stayed at the 40-45 mins wouldn’t work. That leaves the only option to have 5 courts or play some 1st round matches on the Day-1 (qualification day).
    I haven't looked at the BWF's books. I'm not sure how much an extra day would cost them, but if they are already paying for 6 days for the venue (probably 8 days if you include setting up and packing up), it would just cost them an extra day to rent the venue plus staff costs.

    I think it is really stupid to change the scoring system because a sponsor wants it. BWF should look for another sponsor if OSIM insists on 4 courts. I don't even know 4 courts helps OSIM's advertisement - everybody can see OSIM's logo when it was 5 courts.

  13. #47
    Regular Member Andy05's Avatar
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    I blame the players! Big call I know.

    A few years back a member on here managed to compare the mens singles final at Wimbledon with the AE mens singles final, back in old scoring days. (I can't remember who, but if I find the thread they have full credit)
    They showed that for the length of the match, Badminton players spent a greater % of time actually hitting the shuttle than the tennis players spent hitting the ball. I think now you would probably see a massive drop in the % of the time the players are in rallies. They spend so long wandering about, asking for court moppping, towelling down, asking for new shuttles, delaying the serve, making an issue about line calls, etc. That the matches are longer than they should be.
    Umpires need to start getting cards out for time wasters and put a stop to this messing about.

    And... Just because the AE went on till 2.30am doesn't mean the Olympics will.

  14. #48
    Regular Member huangkwokhau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galaxyduo View Post
    I haven't looked at the BWF's books. I'm not sure how much an extra day would cost them, but if they are already paying for 6 days for the venue (probably 8 days if you include setting up and packing up), it would just cost them an extra day to rent the venue plus staff costs.

    I think it is really stupid to change the scoring system because a sponsor wants it. BWF should look for another sponsor if OSIM insists on 4 courts. I don't even know 4 courts helps OSIM's advertisement - everybody can see OSIM's logo when it was 5 courts.
    It is nothing to do with sponsors or OSIM....the rule for using 5 courts has been recommended by BWF for long time except for Japan Open SS which uses 5 courts due to stadium policy which is to be closed around 9.30 pm everyday.

    Honestly, adding extra day is better and we can use 3 courts because after round 16, we will use 3 court or quarter and now on quarter final..the organizer uses 2 courts or sometimes semifinal, they use 1 court now ( morning and evening session)...

    I dont want to watch many good matches on same time like GP...adding extra day is good for sponsors, also for TV and for viewers as well.....

    Remember that finding sponsorhips is not easy as you guys think..even for professional players..
    So far everything is perfect...this 3 am thingy will not come too often...even last nite Swiss Gold GP finished around 12.30 something....

    For Premier..we need extra day and we can use 3 courts to enjoy more games...
    The set up on courts with sponsors are nice now with lighting, etc..we need to make badminton tournament with fun and activities like tennis..so far I have seen Indonesia Open exceeded it and recently followed by Malaysia Open SS and a bit from Korea Open SSP...

    Badminton is far away from being popular and favorite sport...dont believe it? just look at BWF TV from you tube..you can see only less 50 K people watching or viewing it ( since yesterday)
    We dont need to change the scoring system ...as a matter of fact we need to get more tournaments rally to make this sport being played and watched....still lobbying bWF to add more Challenge level especially for US, Canada, Central America which they cant afford to have more GP or GP Golds ( only US has GP Gold and Canada cant even upgrade to GP Gold)..thats the reality of our badminton....we need more people playing and watching before big sponsors can step in...

    Thats my humble opinion!!

  15. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by demolidor View Post
    The purpose is to get tv exposure and if tv tells them we can only spare so much time the BWF tries/d to cater to them. Tennis has already established themselves so no point in comparing to it unless you take the situation for tennis 20-30-40 years ago.
    If that is the case BWF should try and find a way to establish themselves like what Tennis did, BUT not by the way of shortening the length of game. I believe by doing so it will get nowhere.

    So can anyone enlighten me on how did Tennis cope with TV 30-40 years ago when TV tells them that they can only spare so much time for the match?

  16. #50
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    There were some different conditions 30-40 years ago, there was not such a wide choice of live sports content available for airing. The size and capability of the cameras probably had something to do with that - luckily for tennis it was played in big arenas with good outdoor lighting. There were only a few channels (3 if you were lucky) and the test pattern was probably the longest programme broadcast each day. Live sports matches would be interrupted for the 6 o'clock news. Repeats of the same event were shown in highlights only.

    Audiences and broadcasting media have changed, badminton broadcasting development has a different set of challenges to face. In the face of so much competing material available nowadays Cable TV and internet distribution hopefully will provide the media to broadcast the amount of content we want to see. In the end revenue has to be attracted to justify the provision of content though.

    What type of ads got aired during AE broadcast in other places? In HK there were mainly ads for other programs from the same broadcaster and a few watch ads (golf based?!) and a martial arts academy (probably others but i was taking a break). I don't recall any badminton related ads or even event sponsor based ads. With all the investment in clothes, equipment, facilities and training related to badminton there does seem to be a lack of broadcast advertising. And this is in a place where badminton is already a hugely popular sport.

  17. #51
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    If there are restrictions maybe they should reduce the number of entries or even delete the qualifying round.From past experience event officials have an idea of how long it takes to get through an event and you have to allow for the 3 setters. Hopefully the organisers have got back and evaluated the situation and resolved the issue.

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