Swiss OPEN GPG 2012 Semifinal and Final

***jamesd20*** · 03-17-2012, 09:14 PM

Well, i think you may be analysing too subjectively on his record against LCW.

Objectively his initial results are good in the short time he has been around, but subjectively if you take a look at his play, technique, etc... I think you can tell he is not in the league of somemother players. Maybe he can develop into one, but when you make hard work of relatively easy matches you make it harder to progress in later stages.

**luvina** · 03-17-2012, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by badMania

Yup I also read the entire thread, having just woken up and the live commentary from abedeng is as always, priceless!

I am not exactly surprised by Taufik or AG/Alvent's loss. AG/Alvent is probably the only top 10 pair that has not won a single title at GP level yet and I am still convinced by their ability to beat fellow top 20 pairs!

Towi/Butet were again stretched to 3-sets. Luckily, they don't have to face the Chinese pair today. 4 down, 1 to go this week! Winning the title this week is also imperative for them to make sure they stay seeded for the Olympics as they have a huge 34,750 pts (winning Malaysia GPG, India and Singapore SS titles as well runner-up at INA GPG) to defend between now and the London Games. Another 7k pts this week will make up for the MAS GPG pts!

XD FINAL
Tontowi Ahmad/Liliyana Natsir [1] vs Sudket Prapakamol/Saralee Thoungthongkam [3] - why oh why do they arrange this match not as the first match, but as the last match! This forces me to stay awake! So far, Towi/Butet have no problems against Sudket/Saralee, but from I watched yesterday, the Thais are on a roll, esp Sudket with his sharp smashes and delicate touches. Yes, the INA pair should not under-estimate the Thais and if they play their normal game, 2 titles in a row should be possible!

Yes, it's so night match

**jkkwongnz** · 03-17-2012, 10:45 PM

I think the defeat last night to LHI actually is good thing for CL. CL doesn't need points but he needs to know the strength and weakness of his main opponents prior to London Olympics. He certainly is not at his peak. As I said in the past, it is quite difficult for a player to maintain at the top form all the time. Even Lin dan didn't try to do it. Most chinese players are trained to be peak at the right time. There is why they win so many important tournaments. CL was at his peak in last quarter of 2011 to collect his points. He is more at the relax mood and try to study his opponents more. I am not worry about his defeats at the moment. You will see his true colour at London Olympics. I remember LHI beat Lin Dan at korean open in January 2008 but Lin Dan was the one who grapped the olympics title in August 2008.

Originally Posted by Jonc108

This is not like exam, u could concentrate on one subject (even ignore the rest) and score good in that subject directly...

CL could not jump "directly" to meet LCW in SF or finals to beat him without getting pass other players in R1, R2, QF & SF...

Just name me another player who could beat LCW 3 times with the same year, within a span of 3 months. CL did it, and did it convincingly. So their last 5 H2H is 3:2. The 2 wins by LCW was both close matches in 3 sets. this is the biggest difference (in quality) amongst him and the rest of players other than LCW/LD.

Yes, every top player does study the other top players' way of play, and figure out the strategy how to beat him. But this is on top of their basic training, and the study would not just concentrate on one single player. I am sure every top players should have studied the plays of LCW & LD, not only CL..

Yes CL may have more motivation to beat LCW when play against him. Who don't? Which young player would reject the temptation to beat leading players??? (I also want to if I could..

) You could ask the HK player WWK what does it taste after beating LD & CJ? Or Cordon on his beating CL in WC last year!

Do u think PSH or Sasaki was route training to beat LD since they beat LD a bit more times than many other players???

Yes I believe Chinese coaching team did more research on other countries' players to make sure their own players learned more about their opponents before meeting them. And I also believe they do have mock practice with some of their coaching staff emulating their major opponents' play for familiarization. But that's not route training on one single player.

CL's current form could be due to his inconsistency, could be due to other players' adaptation to his play, could be due to lack of physical form, or could be due to the Chinese team's pre-OG training cycle. Remember how LD performed in early 2008 prior to OG? Many people here wrote him off (of course compared with LCW) before OG. Then everyone knew what LD did at OG final.

I was just amused at the way people here so promt of jumping to conclusion instead of analyze subjectively...

**ye333** · 03-17-2012, 11:19 PM

If motivation is the key, we should see CL perform at the same level when against LD as he did against LCW. But that's not the case. CL anticipates LCW's shots much much better than LD's -- it's a weird thing when you think about it, as he plays against LD everyday while meets LCW only a few times before.

Seems to me, route training or not, it is very clear that Team China specially prepared CL to surprise LCW. This is a good strategy because this would force LCW to spend much time prepare against CL -- which LCW clearly hadn't done before the end of last year, and thus spend less time on LD; While at the same time LD can put much more time in studying LCW, since he really doesn't need to worry about CL. So don't be surprised if we see something like OG08 final again... It's kind of unfair to LCW, but that's just reality. :-)

This is why I really wish old guys like TH, LHI, and PG to be in their best possible form in OG12. This would force LD/LCW to spent less time on studying each other and make the games more interesting to watch.

Originally Posted by Jonc108

This is not like exam, u could concentrate on one subject (even ignore the rest) and score good in that subject directly...

CL could not jump "directly" to meet LCW in SF or finals to beat him without getting pass other players in R1, R2, QF & SF...

Just name me another player who could beat LCW 3 times with the same year, within a span of 3 months. CL did it, and did it convincingly. So their last 5 H2H is 3:2. The 2 wins by LCW was both close matches in 3 sets. this is the biggest difference (in quality) amongst him and the rest of players other than LCW/LD.

Yes, every top player does study the other top players' way of play, and figure out the strategy how to beat him. But this is on top of their basic training, and the study would not just concentrate on one single player. I am sure every top players should have studied the plays of LCW & LD, not only CL..

Yes CL may have more motivation to beat LCW when play against him. Who don't? Which young player would reject the temptation to beat leading players??? (I also want to if I could..

) You could ask the HK player WWK what does it taste after beating LD & CJ? Or Cordon on his beating CL in WC last year!

Do u think PSH or Sasaki was route training to beat LD since they beat LD a bit more times than many other players???

Yes I believe Chinese coaching team did more research on other countries' players to make sure their own players learned more about their opponents before meeting them. And I also believe they do have mock practice with some of their coaching staff emulating their major opponents' play for familiarization. But that's not route training on one single player.

CL's current form could be due to his inconsistency, could be due to other players' adaptation to his play, could be due to lack of physical form, or could be due to the Chinese team's pre-OG training cycle. Remember how LD performed in early 2008 prior to OG? Many people here wrote him off (of course compared with LCW) before OG. Then everyone knew what LD did at OG final.

I was just amused at the way people here so promt of jumping to conclusion instead of analyze subjectively...

**eaglehelang** · 03-17-2012, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by jpb93

I am up for peoples opinions on the game etc, but not posting the score every 10 seconds its so tedious! when everyones watching it or following it on livescore

Not everyone can see livescore. Those with phones,tablets which are NOT flash enabled will not be able to. Most popular : iphone, ipad. Others : blackberry,windows phone.If you scroll back, you will see members request for score update. If you cant stand this, just watch livescore during the match, read the comments in this thread later

**limsy** · 03-18-2012, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by Jonc108

This is not like exam, u could concentrate on one subject (even ignore the rest) and score good in that subject directly...
CL could not jump "directly" to meet LCW in SF or finals to beat him without getting pass other players in R1, R2, QF & SF...

thats why he lost to the like of hafiz,hans vittinghus,marc,shon wan ho,kevin cordon

not to mention kenichi tago(twice),boonsak(twice),lee hyun il(twice),uncle peter(twice) and uncle taufik(twice)

liverpool too beat man utd 4-1 away,they boast a lot about it
but end up man utd is the league chanpion
and they say,we beat them 4-1 at their home
we are better than the champion

looks familiar to me

**Miqilin7** · 03-18-2012, 02:09 AM

just a food for thought, hmmm when was the last time a non-Chinese player defeated LCW in a Super Series event. The last one i could barely remembered was Sony..who outplayed him in Singapore 2 years ago.

So far only two players have managed to stop LCW;'s killing spree. Lin Dan and Chen Long; most of the victories belonged to lin dan though. no discredit to chen long but i guess he fought really hard to win them last year

**eaglehelang** · 03-18-2012, 02:20 AM

Taufik beat LCW in WC 2010 if not mistaken, not SS tourney but still a major international tourmey.
Anyway, main pt is wow factor. When LD came to the scene, wow. Taufik,wow. LCW andPG, sorta wow. Even Bao2, not bad wow. Chen Long, hmmmmmm, like an improved version of robot's style - some China fans think so too, so its not the so called bias of non China fans.

Face it, aft watching LD, Taufik,LCW,PG, the current youngsters seem bland in comparison. I'm waiting to see if Tian Hou Wei has the wow factor at senior stage.

**Justin L** · 03-18-2012, 03:07 AM

My picks for the day:

WD - Zhong QX/ Bao YX
MD - Fang/Lee
MS - Lee HI
WS - Wang SX
XD - Tantowi/Lilyana

**Miqilin7** · 03-18-2012, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Justin L

My picks for the day:

WD - Zhong QX/ Bao YX
MD - Fang/Lee
MS - Lee HI
WS - Wang SX
XD - Tantowi/Lilyana

Wang Shixian might lose this one....there's personal agenda ongoing at the moment about her Olympics prospects after seeing Li Xuerui's impressive run in the german and all england. Should she let Saina win to overtake Li Xuerui....drama

**jkkwongnz** · 03-18-2012, 03:57 AM

SWISS open basically is a personal test and chance for WSX to beat nonchinese players and she did well so far. I think she will try her best to win this match to convince her big boss that she can beat saina. So, WSX will take this match for sure.

Originally Posted by Miqilin7

Wang Shixian might lose this one....there's personal agenda ongoing at the moment about her Olympics prospects after seeing Li Xuerui's impressive run in the german and all england. Should she let Saina win to overtake Li Xuerui....drama

**Justin L** · 03-18-2012, 04:06 AM

This time round I've confidence in Wang SX esp against a known quantity. If it were Mitani,the element of surprise might be there,who knows this is the start of her sudden rise, but Saina, we more or less know her capability or lack thereof, a bit lucky she only have to meet one 2nd-tier CHN player not in the top 5, even Jiang YJ could have taken her out. Well,we shall soon see but on current form, WSX is back to her best, and, I concur with you on the LXR factor which should motivate her even more to win this one.

**uselessmail** · 03-18-2012, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by jkkwongnz

SWISS open basically is a personal test and chance for WSX to beat nonchinese players and she did well so far. I think she will try her best to win this match to convince her big boss that she can beat saina. So, WSX will take this match for sure.

Common guys!! Most of the guys here seem convinced of WSX's invincibility vis a vis Saina and that even if Saina wins, it'll be due to the match being gifted by WSX!!!

Saina isn't a complete pushover and this is really unfair on her even after proving herself on the world stage for so long. Of course she's being having a dull patch lately and yet the fact that she competes against the top Chinese players consistently and has to clear one juggernaut after another is testimony to her skill. I understand that the chinese are probably a hundred times better coached than the others but Saina has done more than her share of hard work to earn her wins and not having to be gifted by them!
Just my two cents!!

**uselessmail** · 03-18-2012, 04:17 AM

On another note! Thank you very much abedeng for your live updates! I went through all of them in the morning today and felt as if I had seen the match itself! Thank you!
Its also very nice to see fellow BCer's step up and stand up for him when a couple of members were interrupting with annoying comments in between, asking him to stop!
Hope to see more you mate! Keep up the good work!!!

**Justin L** · 03-18-2012, 04:18 AM

My head picks Lee HI,The Dangerman, though my heart goes to Chen Jin. I know Chen Jin has it in him but he has yet to thoroughly regroup himself and gather his thoughts during the recent see-saw,lacklustre performance. If he beats LHI tonight,then I'd say he's coming back to form and,hopefully,make it to London OG. Wish him all the best.

**Justin L** · 03-18-2012, 04:32 AM

I'm sure nobody in his right mind would think Saina a pushover,far from it,we all respect her, I certainly do. Its just that she has been in the circuit for a number of years already - ditto Juliane,Tine - her best results seems to be in 2010, and since then she 's been stopped time and again by one or the other of the Chinese top players,that's why I'm looking for a new non-CHN star to arise, specifically, Ithanon,Tai TY,Sung JH,maybe a Japanese hopeful. That's not to say Saina has no hope tonight,only the odds are stacked against her,particularly when facing a resurgent WSX now.

**Miqilin7** · 03-18-2012, 04:36 AM

Nobody likes to play against Lee Hyunil in any tournament. chances of you losing is very high even though you are supposed to win. Such a dangerous person to meet in the London Olympics. Even LCW was scared to face him, Lin Dan maybe yes. I think they both met a couple of times and Lin Dan had the upper hand..

The semifinal match against LHI in all england was proof that he can push lee chong wei to the limits, making him injured his shoulder to that extent..