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  1. #1
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    Default Sun Yu (孙瑜)

    Perhaps somewhat premature, but it seems fit to start a thread to celebrate her foray into the senior circuit.

    Name: SUN, Yu (孙瑜)
    Place of Birth: DaLian, LiaoNing, China
    Date of Birth: Februay 28, 1994
    Height: 1.83 m / 6'0"
    BWF Profile: http://www.bwfbadminton.org/page.aspx?id=15539

    1994: Born
    2003: Entered Sporting School in ZhuHai, GuangDong, China
    2005: Selected into the provincial team of GuangDong
    2010: Selected into the national junior team
    2011: Asia Junior Championship WS and Team champions
    2012: Senior circuit debut at the Thailand Open

    Video from2011 Chinese National Team Championship (Sun Yu's segments starts at about the 20th minute):
    http://bugu.cntv.cn/sports/informati...0/100760.shtml



    Last edited by RedShuttle; 06-06-2012 at 08:30 PM.

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    In her maiden (senior/adult) international tournament, Thai Open GPG 2012, she beat two promising youngsters, Spanish Carolina Marin, and Thai Busanan Ongbumrungpan,winner of last month's MAS Open GPG - I'd say a good start for her.

    Unfortunately, tomorrow in the QF she's playing her senior Wang Lin, the former World Champion who may not have regained her form after two injury layoffs. Still I expect to see a good fight. She could be the surprise package here.Wish her the very best in this tournament.

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    Another Manchu player from Liaoning. She will receive a lot of attention from Zhang Ning or LYB

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    she is quite pretty.

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    After winning the title last year, Sun Yu lost to P.V. Sindhu in the quarter-final at the Asia Junior Championship this year.

    Currently, the elite group of rising stars such as Inthanon Ratchanok, P.V. Sindhu, Nozomi Okuhara, Carolina Marin and TAI Tzu Ying are getting a lot of experience at the senior level. Given the strong group of WS players on the CHN squad, Sun Yu is at a disadvantage with little opportunity to gain experience.

    Hope this will change after the London Olympics.

    P.S. thanks to admin for cleaning out the garbage.

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    BWF should come out with a new ruling: Whichever player of any junior age has a record of playing in a senior tournament (GPG or SS) should be banned from playing in the WJC and AJC.

    I feel it's quite unfair especially for the juniors who had no chance of even participating in SS.

    Ratchanok for example, WJC to her is a piece of cake because to her , her junior opponents are nothing compared to the senior players she frequently played in SS.

    BWF should seriously look into this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    BWF should come out with a new ruling: Whichever player of any junior age has a record of playing in a senior tournament (GPG or SS) should be banned from playing in the WJC and AJC.

    I feel it's quite unfair especially for the juniors who had no chance of even participating in SS.

    Ratchanok for example, WJC to her is a piece of cake because to her , her junior opponents are nothing compared to the senior players she frequently played in SS.

    BWF should seriously look into this.
    On this,I'm quite in agreement with you. As in most other sports,once a junior player starts taking part in the senior tournaments,esp when he achieves significant results, he is either prohibited from playing in the junior championships or the player himself voluntarily takes himself out,an implicit rule I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    BWF should come out with a new ruling: Whichever player of any junior age has a record of playing in a senior tournament (GPG or SS) should be banned from playing in the WJC and AJC.

    I feel it's quite unfair especially for the juniors who had no chance of even participating in SS.

    Ratchanok for example, WJC to her is a piece of cake because to her , her junior opponents are nothing compared to the senior players she frequently played in SS.

    BWF should seriously look into this.
    really?tai have a 2-3 head to head with her
    pv sindhu,nazomi,busanan stand a chance to beat her too.

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    I appreciate your concern for the junior players, but I beg to differ. These juniors players (who have played little bit at senior level) act like a bridge between junior and senior circuit. They bring a little senior level experience to the junior circuit. In any sport, a player will improve only when he/she plays some one above him or her. Junior players will learn a lot when they are playing with a better player so they will not be overwhelmed when they suddenly have to play seniors with far more experience and better all round play. Not every player can burst on to the scene out of nowhere with all guns blazing. The transition from Junior level to Senior level has to be gradual. I think its a good thing that they allow this.
    Coming to Sun Yu, actually she is not at disadvantage at all. Rather she is at a vantage point being part of such an illustrious women's badminton team. She can learn so much from her senior compatriots. They have wealth of experience, a coaching team that the whole world envies, better sparring partners etc. From what I see leaving Sun Yu everyone else is at a disadvantage.
    Inthanon, IMO, came to senior level much earlier than she should have. Look at her performances. Although she is ranked in the top 10 but have you ever seen her in finals or semifinals of any SS. How often do you see her beating a chinese player. She plays around 23-25 tournaments every year which helps her maintain her ranking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rahuldarga View Post
    I appreciate your concern for the junior players, but I beg to differ. These juniors players (who have played little bit at senior level) act like a bridge between junior and senior circuit. They bring a little senior level experience to the junior circuit. In any sport, a player will improve only when he/she plays some one above him or her. Junior players will learn a lot when they are playing with a better player so they will not be overwhelmed when they suddenly have to play seniors with far more experience and better all round play. Not every player can burst on to the scene out of nowhere with all guns blazing. The transition from Junior level to Senior level has to be gradual. I think its a good thing that they allow this.
    Coming to Sun Yu, actually she is not at disadvantage at all. Rather she is at a vantage point being part of such an illustrious women's badminton team. She can learn so much from her senior compatriots. They have wealth of experience, a coaching team that the whole world envies, better sparring partners etc. From what I see leaving Sun Yu everyone else is at a disadvantage.
    Inthanon, IMO, came to senior level much earlier than she should have. Look at her performances. Although she is ranked in the top 10 but have you ever seen her in finals or semifinals of any SS. How often do you see her beating a chinese player. She plays around 23-25 tournaments every year which helps her maintain her ranking.
    Your argument is plausible generally for the majority of the junior players who would be struggling at the senior level. But for players like Inthanon who has been playing regularly in the senior circuit with creditable results and ranked within the top 15, the justification looks tenuous. Furthermore,she has won the WJC twice already,why would she want to continue playing in the junior circuit where she would probably outclass them and not gain anything for not being pushed.

    By extension my reasoning should also apply to players slightly lesser than her, there's much more to gain from moving to the senior level which they inevitably have to as they ages,anyway. For these juniors,winning the junior titles is only a confidence-booster and recognition of their potential for greater heights.

    It is best for any junior player to progress or advance to the senior level at the first or earliest opportunity and thereafter not play in any junior championships which serve little purpose and may even retard their rise for not consistently facing stronger opponents. In other words,the transition from junior to senior level should be as short as possible,not gradual so as to quickly get out of the comfort zone.

    Coming back to Inthanon, her inability as you've pointed out to reach any semi-final or final of a SS/SSP has to do not so much with her age despite having been playing regularly at the senior circuit but more to do with her present skill level and development of her game,including perhaps the quality of her coaches and resources available. Many much older players don't even achieve nearly as much.

    What's more,it might be viewed as unsportsmanlike for her to continue winning the WJC when she is already regarded as a reasonably strong "senior" player. Therefore, I strongly feel either players of her caliber be prohibited from taking part in junior championships or she apply the rule to herself implicitly, which ultimately can only do her much good as she strives to higher standards.

    Note,I only use her case as an example,what I say applies equally to anyone of or near her level, Sun Yu,for example. In fact,I consider Inthanon,and Tai Tzu Ying too (maybe Carolina Marin as well),as child prodigies - they certainly won't be content winning and defending the junior titles. For MS, Viktor Axelsen is another case in point.

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    she is so tall

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    Despite of Sun Yu's training with the best, it's still just training. For a young player, gaining quality match experience is just as important. Sun Yu was out of the country only three times, clearly at a disadvantage versus her main competitors who are already seasoned travellers.

    As for age-eligible players in junior tournaments, it is hard to exclude the best junior players from junior tournaments. If they are willing and able to participate in both senior and junior circuits, good for them. Once they have sufficient success at the senior level, it would make sense to waive good-bye to junior competitions, for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin L View Post
    Your argument is plausible generally for the majority of the junior players who would be struggling at the senior level. But for players like Inthanon who has been playing regularly in the senior circuit with creditable results and ranked within the top 15, the justification looks tenuous. Furthermore,she has won the WJC twice already,why would she want to continue playing in the junior circuit where she would probably outclass them and not gain anything for not being pushed.

    By extension my reasoning should also apply to players slightly lesser than her, there's much more to gain from moving to the senior level which they inevitably have to as they ages,anyway. For these juniors,winning the junior titles is only a confidence-booster and recognition of their potential for greater heights.

    It is best for any junior player to progress or advance to the senior level at the first or earliest opportunity and thereafter not play in any junior championships which serve little purpose and may even retard their rise for not consistently facing stronger opponents. In other words,the transition from junior to senior level should be as short as possible,not gradual so as to quickly get out of the comfort zone.

    Coming back to Inthanon, her inability as you've pointed out to reach any semi-final or final of a SS/SSP has to do not so much with her age despite having been playing regularly at the senior circuit but more to do with her present skill level and development of her game,including perhaps the quality of her coaches and resources available. Many much older players don't even achieve nearly as much.

    What's more,it might be viewed as unsportsmanlike for her to continue winning the WJC when she is already regarded as a reasonably strong "senior" player. Therefore, I strongly feel either players of her caliber be prohibited from taking part in junior championships or she apply the rule to herself implicitly, which ultimately can only do her much good as she strives to higher standards.

    Note,I only use her case as an example,what I say applies equally to anyone of or near her level, Sun Yu,for example. In fact,I consider Inthanon,and Tai Tzu Ying too (maybe Carolina Marin as well),as child prodigies - they certainly won't be content winning and defending the junior titles. For MS, Viktor Axelsen is another case in point.
    Note: Inthanon won WJC thrice.
    In Inthanon's case I totally agree with you. For me she has become an eye soar... I say this not because I hate her but because such a prodigious talent of hers has been such a waste so far. She has kind of become a stateless person where she neither belongs to junior level (for being far too experienced) nor the senior level (where she has not been able to completely justify her senior billing).
    I may be jumping the guns by making above statements but with her talent she should have been dominating the senior circuit by now by reaching the top 5. She is just 17 and has a long career ahead of her but looking at the sheer number of tournaments she is playing right now I wonder how long it's gonna last.... I hope she proves me dead wrong.
    As you pointed out, I definitely blame it on their coaches and certainly back your statement where she needs to be banned from the Junior circuit for she has achieved everything there is at the Junior level.

    BWF should come up either with a system where it gauges a Junior player's performances at Senior level tournaments before "upgrading" them or a rule that limits the number of senior tournaments a junior level player can play each year before graduating to senior level. Which kind of nicely mixes things up. Because of players like Inthanon, who plays almost all the senior tournaments, it becomes one sided affair when they play at the junior level.

    In case of Sun Ya, I cant comment because I dont know much about her.

    There are many players who have excelled at junior level but terribly flopped at the senior level. They need some reality check as to where they stand before moving on whether it may be a gradual or a quick one but they still need to know how good their game is. Senior circuit is a completely different ball game and its very challenging. This is my reasoning for having players with little bit of senior level experience play at junior level is that

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedShuttle View Post
    Despite of Sun Yu's training with the best, it's still just training. For a young player, gaining quality match experience is just as important. Sun Yu was out of the country only three times, clearly at a disadvantage versus her main competitors who are already seasoned travellers.

    As for age-eligible players in junior tournaments, it is hard to exclude the best junior players from junior tournaments. If they are willing and able to participate in both senior and junior circuits, good for them. Once they have sufficient success at the senior level, it would make sense to waive good-bye to junior competitions, for themselves.
    You make a good point there when you say Sun Yu's been out of country only thrice. That does play a major part in an athlete's progress. A player needs to experience all kinds of situations and climatic conditions to get better at any sport.
    I mentioned in one of my comments that I didnt know much about her, so I will have to take out some weight out of my statement where I said Sun Yu has world class coaching, top class sparring partners and state support as those will not substitute for climatic conditions and various situations. But still she has a little advantage for having at least those luxuries compared to players like Carolina Marin as they struggle to survive on their own. Those are the dividends a country gets for having produced trailer blazers for example just look at how Gopichand is molding the Indian Badminton. That is how it builds and grows to be a power like China.

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    Inthanon won the WJC thrice,not twice, I stand corrected, all the more underlining my point that she ought to take herself out of the junior circuit.

    Sun Yu has only three international outings as RedShuttle revealed, the third occasion being her maiden appearance in a senior tournament at the recent Thai Open where she was eliminated by her senior compatriot Wang Lin, a former WC. Despite not having played or won the WJC, CBA was more keen to let her try the senior tournaments,that shows how little they regard the WJC,they even pulled out from this year's.

    I say the junior players in CHN are in a hapless situation, in a way neither here nor there, world class coaching and sparring partners notwithstanding. At the junior championships,there are so many of them to take turns and they are usually given only one or at most two attempts. At the senior level,most of them are considered not good enough to be enrolled all because their seniors are too good with at least 5 or 6 them ranked in the top 10.

    Just imagine,if Inthanon were to be a CHN player,wonder how often or how long she would play in the senior circuit, with at least 5 seniors better than her,the 5th one being the reliable veteran Jiang YJ who is on par with the best in the ROW. Clearly,non-CHN juniors with potential are much more fortunate, another example being Tai Tzu Ying who in spite of a short layoff due to health grounds(appendicitis) is still not sidelined by anyone in Taiwan and get to play in the Olympics to boot, what an envy. Just contrast her good fortune with WSX,maybe not an apt comparison but you get my point.

    Talking about Inthanon who's been in the international circuit for less than 3 years, I believe she will progress further, she's got the potential, far from fully tapped yet. Normally,I'd say give a player about 5 years to gauge how far he or she can go. Very few are late bloomers, a famous example being Zhang Ning who played her best badminton after 24/25. For the MS,I always like to quote Sho Sasaki who amazes me. I believe maturity and experience are important to realizing one's true potential.

    Technically,I must admit it's a bit difficult for BWF or any sports body to prohibit a junior from taking part in a senior event or vice versa for whatever grounds other than age limit. It behooves the players themselves and/or their organizations to self-impose the practice. Personally, I feel there isn't much glory to be the greatest junior champion if you don't succeed at the senior level, so I think this problem isn't a big issue.

  16. #16
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    OT : *Regarding the BWF rule of allowing junior players up to certain age to participate in the WJC, i would say keep it as is.
    It just so happen, there's a freak-of-nature talent in the name of Ratchanok INthanon that makes it seem like BWF should change the rules and not allow a junior (like RI), who's played in senior tourneys and won them, to compete in the WJC anymore.
    However, i do want BWF to really crack down on the supposed age-cheating issue, where a player whose real age is over the eligibility age is still competing.
    Last edited by ctjcad; 07-15-2012 at 01:54 PM.

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    Sun Yu just knocked out the top-fancied Tai Tzu Ying at the WJC Individual event, 18-21 21-13 21-11
    She'll be up later today against Nozomi Okuhara in the WS semi-finals.

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