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  1. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Golden era: MS

    In MS, China have dominated the landscape as a team. They have had more players in the semis and finals than any other country, consistently. No surprise. The only country that hit them hard, was Malaysia, thanks to just one solitary man: LCW. In team events (TC, SC, AG etc) China has ruled with an iron fist for the past 5 or more years. There have been very few surprises.

    But this is mostly down to LD, and lately, CL. Take LD away from the equation, and this may even affect CL's confidence. China will look decidedly shaky once LD is not around. Again, the theory that WZM, DPY et al will easily step up and fill the shoes of LD, CJH and CL, is IMO, wishful thinking or plain bluster. They have shown that they are good, but not that good.

    And remember, other countries are improving. The young Danes, as well as the young Koreans and Japanese players are becoming a real and present threat and show the ability to displace China. In a couple of years, they will be joined by the young Indonesians and Malaysians. The Indians show promise, but whether they can make the transition from dangerous floaters to top-level threats remains to be seen. If AJ can get his act together, he can certainly still do it.
    If there is no LD, TH would be supreme followed by LCW. I have posted before that LCW is the best MAS player I have seen played this game but unfortunately his path crossed with the world greatest player, so there could only be one winner and we knew the outcome.
    Your post has merit except that with LD out, CHN men team may appear to be weaker but then the rest of the world really has no exceptional player the like of TH, LCW or PG to take over either.
    You mention WZM, DPY, etc...but how many excellent young talents mirking around in CHN we do not really know. I reckon this to table tennis, where CHN world junior team swept the world and I seen some great TT played, and 2 years later, not one single WS or MS player from that WJC team makes it to the national squad. Just like that, they are not good enough while the rest of the world including the great Sing team makes do with the same set of players. That is depth that CHN has, scary.
    The strength in the rest of the world lies on doubles....single, who in INA, MAS, PG (except Axelson), KOR (only 1 Won) and then who else can compete against CHN? Just me thoughts.

  2. #36
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    LCW is far from being the only unfortunate one to have crossed path with LD. Ask BCL about it. And to a less extent, CJ.

    Living in LD's shadow, BCL not only couldn't beat LD, he did not even have enough drive and confidence to contend with LCW.

  3. #37
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedShuttle View Post
    LCW is far from being the only unfortunate one to have crossed path with LD. Ask BCL about it. And to a less extent, CJ.

    Living in LD's shadow, BCL not only couldn't beat LD, he did not even have enough drive and confidence to contend with LCW.
    Too true!! BCL is one of the most unfortunate stories; phenomenal talent, tragic story...

  4. #38
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    Du PY is a journeyman, Wang ZM's light shone a bit but briefly and disappeared from my radar screen. Like OTB, I expect some player somewhere in the vast expanse of China to suddenly emerge and cause a stir.

    Redshuttle,notice anyone on the horizon for MS?

  5. #39
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    Ar, age thingie, no secret, I am in my mid-fifties, can retire but scared like heck to retire cos' I dunno what to do with so much time. The truth is if I retire I would have to stay home and face my old lady all day long...like OTB, take out the garbage, the car is dirty (you know what to do lah), water the garden, cut the lawn, and so on....better stay in the office, safer
    Oh OTB you don't have a complete retirement plan then

    since we are all baddy players let me share with you some secrets after we have retired.

    Play competitive baddy overseas .

    Yes, join the 100 yrs (up to 120 yrs) combined age tournament.

    It's spreading here in a lot of countries especially Malaysia .

    Purposely for cost saving, rooms are shared for about 6 persons (later you know why)

    so can't bring wifey along (and its one of the rule!)

    and most trips takes up to 10 days (excuse is tickets cheaper)

    and better discount go in big group the more the merrier

    and most important thing find a lousy partner

    You get knocked out in the first round

    playing in one of the china province

    and you have all the free time for the next one week or so ehmm mmm.

    Then back home you will start your training etc etc

    but don't forget the lady in the house once in a while

    hahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Golden era: WS

    In WS, the Golden era for China seems to extend forever! Apart from the age of Susi Susanti (she too had to deal with giants from China) and Camilla Martin (she, ditto) the Chinese girls have had a romp. And they are still pouring in from every corner of the country! It's very likely China will maintain it's stranglehold on this format for a long time.

    But as I pointed out earlier, one slip in calculations, or one star-crossed phase of retirements, and it could all change quickly. The other countries have been slowly closing the gap, and it is only the combined presence of the top 5-6 Chinese girls in almost all tournaments that have effectively crushed the spirits of the rest. But the youngsters from other countries are changing their outlook; they don't care how many China WS girls the CBA throws at them; they will just play their game. And once they begin to get better tech and strategic support and opponent-specific training like the CBA girls get, they will start making a difference.

    On the whole however, this format is still China's to lose.
    yeah, the WS players from all around the world has potential to beat any chinese players now. but for me, the problem is how many chinese WS players they can beat in 1 tourney? okay, other country's player may beat 1 and 2 chinese WS, but u said it, china occasionally has 4 or even more WS players in 1 tournament. what make it even worse it that the players has different playing style. it's still pretty difficult if a player want to win any tournament for that reason i think.

  7. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    Oh OTB you don't have a complete retirement plan then

    since we are all baddy players let me share with you some secrets after we have retired.

    Play competitive baddy overseas .

    Yes, join the 100 yrs (up to 120 yrs) combined age tournament.

    It's spreading here in a lot of countries especially Malaysia .

    Purposely for cost saving, rooms are shared for about 6 persons (later you know why)

    so can't bring wifey along (and its one of the rule!)

    and most trips takes up to 10 days (excuse is tickets cheaper)

    and better discount go in big group the more the merrier

    and most important thing find a lousy partner

    You get knocked out in the first round

    playing in one of the china province

    and you have all the free time for the next one week or so ehmm mmm.

    Then back home you will start your training etc etc

    but don't forget the lady in the house once in a while

    hahaha
    Arrr....Groupies, China Girls....the latter you do not need to find them, they find you, lots of them already in MAS as I was told stories by my folks back home Okay back to 100 - 200 years tourney, we have that in Canada, heard that it was fun and some of my friends here fly out to play.

  8. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad's fan View Post
    yeah, the WS players from all around the world has potential to beat any chinese players now. but for me, the problem is how many chinese WS players they can beat in 1 tourney? okay, other country's player may beat 1 and 2 chinese WS, but u said it, china occasionally has 4 or even more WS players in 1 tournament. what make it even worse it that the players has different playing style. it's still pretty difficult if a player want to win any tournament for that reason i think.
    and WO

    That is what Camilla Partin said ...the 'China Wall' and add one my obstacle...match fixing and WO, that makes it even harder to beat CHN.

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin L View Post
    Du PY is a journeyman, Wang ZM's light shone a bit but briefly and disappeared from my radar screen. Like OTB, I expect some player somewhere in the vast expanse of China to suddenly emerge and cause a stir.

    Redshuttle,notice anyone on the horizon for MS?
    No one other than WZM that I am aware of.

    A correction on He BingJiao: she is now 15, not 14. She is the current national junior championship in the under 17 class. She joined the national junior team for training last September.

  10. #44
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    The incentives must be attractive enough to entice the most talented to turn professional, especially those from the developed and advanced countries. Otherwise it will continue to be a slow process.

    China is still able to do it because of the great disparity of income between the rural and urban sectors, I suppose. Similarly, Indonesia should still be able to lure talents into badminton as it has a sizeable population. India too for that matter.

    To churn out top professionals takes a long time, more than a decade in general! How many parents are willing to take that risk against a safer academic route for their children?

    As in tennis, prize monies and sponsorships must be such that parents consider it worth taking the risk for their talented children. Remember sports professionals have a relatively short working life to earn their 'fortunes' and not many can make it to the top like LD, LCW, Federal and Nadal.

    Hopefully, as sports continue to become an excellent source of entertainment and national glory, more governments and corporations will pump in greater amounts of dollars to spice up the scene. Eventually we may have more of the likes of LD, LCW, TH and PG appearing in the limelight. Then even the rich and advance nations will want a share of the action.

    One could now witness the popularity and attractiveness of UEFA Euro 2012 that has just started to gain an insight into what it all means with big bucks!

  11. #45
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    Apparently, China's phenomenal,unprecedented success and domination is beginning to breed some resentment in her rivals and their fans (more so) going by what's expressed in this forum as if it's China's fault. But before they gripe and grouse, they have to ask themselves whether they want a levelling up or down in standards, in other words,do they want the rest of the world to rise to China's standard or China to come down to their standards?

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    Success is not the main cause of resentment. We shouldn't care about people who resent success anyway.

    The resentment is mainly from the extracurricular activities by LYB such that even if the great Chinese players show up, there is always a big question mark on whether they will perform, especially when matches are between Chinese teammates. That pretty much destroys, or projects a shadow over, the integrity of the game.

  13. #47
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    Resentment may come from their own player's failure. But they may have to get used to it because I think China will become even stronger in Badminton just like Table tennis. The golden era has not come yet.

    Because of the economic success, more people are attracted to badminton. How much money Zhao Jianhua, Yangyang earned and how much LD earned? ZJH had to go to Singapore to open a food store. Is it sad? I'm glad he get a coach position in Guangxi.

  14. #48
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    OK, I did my little encapsulations for MS, WS and MD. Next comes WD.

    Golden Era: WD

    It is really difficult to say how long China will continue ruling the WD format, but everything else being equal, I'd say they are good to rule for another 2-3 years at least. WXL/YY can probably beat a few of the top-15 MD teams if they're in a mean mood, and though ZYL/TQ don't quite possess the same firepower and speed and ability to hunt as remosrelessly as the #1 pair, still and all, the #2 pair are no slouches! Personally, I think ZYL is well on her way to becoming one of the legendary players of China.

    Almost all of them are around 26 years old. The #1 pair only play WD, they don't do XD. That gives them a huge advantage over quite a few other players of this format (who play both formats) and so they will probably maintain their awesome form for longer than many others. ZYL is possibly the first one who will feel the burden of playing both formats so actively (she is #1 in XD; a huge responsibility on her shoulders) but if ever the China team are in some major difficulty, guess what: they still have emergency rations available in the form of the deadly Ma Jin! Truly an embarrasment of riches.

    But realistically, all of them will be on their farewell tour in another 2-3 years. So, who takes their place? The top Korea/Japanese teams are also the same age (around 26) and that means they will join the top China teams in farewell. Which means it is down to which of the young teams progress more over the next 2 years. I get the feeling that the Chinese, Koreans, Japanese are almost all on the same level, with the Koreans in fact having an edge at the moment. Also, the Japanese and Koreans seem to heve got it right now, and are churning out some very impressive talent at the top level in doubles.

    And don't forget, the Thai girls are making themselves known, and could be serious players in the top bracket in the next 2-3 years. If age were to be the main factor, I'd say they have a long-term edge over almost all the other teams! But I guess its is also down to their training/coaching infrastructure, which seems to be steadily improving.

    Bottom line: I don't want to commit but if forced to make a pick, I'd go for Korea 3 years from now. China seem a bit thin beyod the top 2 pairs, even though I love watching BYX/ZQX playing!

    It is too early (but tempting) to talk about the Philippines. Maybe they will be in the mix in another 6-8 years. If Rexy remains there!
    Last edited by cobalt; 06-13-2012 at 01:40 AM.

  15. #49
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laonong View Post
    Resentment may come from their own player's failure. But they may have to get used to it because I think China will become even stronger in Badminton just like Table tennis. The golden era has not come yet.

    Because of the economic success, more people are attracted to badminton. How much money Zhao Jianhua, Yangyang earned and how much LD earned? ZJH had to go to Singapore to open a food store. Is it sad? I'm glad he get a coach position in Guangxi.

    If I'm not mistaken, ZJH first came to Singapore to study business management partime and work with the See Hoy Chan group at the same time.

    Because of his badminton background, he was roped in to coach the national team to prepare for the Thomas Cup at that time and also to play for Singapore.

    His foray into the food business was just a small investment in a chicken rice stall together with his fellow badminton friends. Maybe he wanted to try out what he had learnt from his management course.

    He even got married and had a son but his wife wanted to return to China so that her mother could also help look after the grandson.

    His short sojourn in Singapore must have given him the rare experience of working and living in a largely English and Mandarin speaking business and social community. He must have made many friends and his short stint as national coach could have encouraged him to continue working as a coach in China now.

    So ZJH did not come to Singapore just 'to open a food store". He might be telling himself now that he was happy that he took the courage to work overseas when few Chinese coaches would want or permitted to venture abroad during his time.
    Last edited by Loh; 06-13-2012 at 04:24 AM.

  16. #50
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    Thanks,Uncle Loh,for telling us the above,hope you've even more to say about his sojourn in Singapore. Did he ever play for Singapore,not that I know of?

    Glad to know he got a coaching job in Guanxi, how come not at the national level,he has the credentials,I believe?

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    If LYB is the head coach, I do not think ZJH will work for him

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