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  1. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by badder View Post
    So, for Chaopai Red, are they still all natural cock? If so, then it is an alternative.
    For some reason...that and Chao Pai Purple were not cut open. So I'll have to do it myself.

  2. #53
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    Replace all "cock" with "cork" please.
    Quote Originally Posted by badder View Post
    I have asked a few friends who have been using Aeroplane Black for years and want to know if they noticed anything. They either already or are going to switch to other brand. So this is already the answer. I bought mine because I didn't know the material has been changed.I personally have tried many top grade shuttlecocks from Aeroplane, RLS, Chaopai, Victor and so on. The only reason I like the Black label is the head. The Victor Champion#1 or RLS Classic are not natural cock material. I don't know how Chaopai Red is doing. It was all natural cock.If my memory is correct, the Aeroplane Green label never used all natural cock. However, I don't recall that the head of Green label deformed this badly as this batch of Black label. Basically, this batch head material is not up to the top grade, even just compare with other brand that doesn't use all natural cock.Rating the performance is not easy. It has more to do with personal feeling. If you ask me, I feel like it get worse more than 50%. It destroyed the brand name.I don't understand why using three layer structure. Using a thin layer natural cock on the feather side doesn't improve any performance but only makes it look better, like plastic surgery, useless, cheating. Why not add that portion to the bottom to make the head side a little more stronger, if any?

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  4. #54
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    Ha, so it is shuttleCOCK, with CORK.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombiez View Post
    Replace all "cock" with "cork" please.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by badder View Post
    Ha, so it is shuttleCOCK, with CORK.
    Shuttlecock is fine. But all the comments about "all natural cock", "not natural cock material", etc makes me LOL.

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  7. #56
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    To our best knowledge, the only reason that a few brands, including the much higher priced Yonex, can still use all natural cork is because they have a much lower volume and market penetration than Aeroplane. We are pretty sure, once the demand is up for their shuttles, they will go down the same route.
    We are sorry that if someone felt being "cheated" upon, which is rather a big word. We don't believe that the factory has any intention of "cheating" their "Gods" at all. There were forced to do so, just like many others.
    They have been a beloved brand name for more than 70 years, I would rather give them the credibility that they must have done something right and trust them to get this right again.
    We all have been loyal to the brand for many years, which means they have been serving us and been providing us the best value for many years.
    They owe us an answer and solution, in the mean time, we owe them a chance to correct.

    Thanks!

  8. #57
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    thank you for the clarification, goodfunsmash. it is sad to see that the quality of Aeroplane Black have been degraded by the manufacturer in this manner. i hope they will make the appropriate action to correct it.

  9. #58
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    Hi Kwun,
    Thank you for understanding and your support, as always!
    We totally understand the frustration and we will make sure that the factory get all the feedback we have heard.
    We are pretty sure they will provide a satisfactory answer to their loyal customers and defend their more than a half a century brand name.

    Thanks!

  10. #59
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    to be honest with you though, after my stock of Aeroplane Black get exhausted, and if by then the quality either didn't go back up or the price has increased by a few dollars, I (and many others) will likely start looking into other brands. one of the reason many people love the Black is that they are great value but once the price goes up it will start getting very close to top models from other brand and I am sure consumer will start to look around elsewhere.

  11. #60
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    Yikes, thanks for the info. I am probably going to perm use RSL's or BK birds when I run out of aeroplanes as well. :s

  12. #61
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    Since this is happening to Aeroplane...then I would imagine that other brands may also be affected as well (ie. degrade). Perhaps we should make a new thread where members could slice a used shuttle to post pics and other relevant information (ie. when bought, price, where, etc). Then we could see if this is a widespread phenomenom.

    Sorry for the thread jack.

    ON TOPIC...I would still like to try a tube of Aeroplane Blacks so I can get a first hand experience with the brand.

  13. #62
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    After the short supply issue of Aeroplane a couple of months ago, I've tried all kind of different brands and types including Chao Pai red, Victor Champions #1, Master #1, #2 (and ace very soon). To be honest, durability and consistency wise, only Master #1 (and probably ace) beat Aeroplane black. Chao Pai is terrible in all aspects but speed. Champions #1 is so inconsistent, maybe 8 are usable out of a tube, some don't even rotate in fly. Master #1 is really comparable to AS-50, the feel, the consistent fly path and durability. Master #2 is somewhat the same but doesn't last as long, maybe similar to AS-40. These observations are based on not only 1 or 2 tubes but at least 10 each and they all come from well known dealers such as badmintonexpresss, shuttlecombo and racketsupply. I'm gonna try Master ace next and probably will stick to it or #1 unless the quality goes down again like the Champions series.

    For Aeroplane, I'm sure raising the price is unavoidable at some point. But that's more understandable to customers than lowering quality because they will feel cheated like many have said.

  14. #63
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    Switching to BK 6800

  15. #64
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    Let's make some technical assessment. It is a fact that cost cutting is part and parcel of the economy. I'm from engineering and manufacturing environment.

    When the shuttlecock hits the racket stringbed, the stringbed "deforms" and the shuttlecock head deforms as well. How much the head deforms depends on the material used. That is part of the reason synthetic shuttlecock behaves differently. Looking at the ugly shuttlecock after usage, it is obvious that the deformation of the middle synthetic material is different from natural cork and didn't fully return to it's original shape thus the ugly shape. I cannot understand the 3 layer approach to save cost except to cheat the user into believing that it is fully natural cork (sorry if I'm wrong). The correct approach to use synthetic material is to use something deforms at a rate similar to cork (if that's possible) and put as 2 layers (the behind layer uses the synthetic material) to reduce variation from original. The result of this change is customer will notice the synthetic material when the label peels off. That's why I mentioned that the 3 layer approach is meant to cheat (cork material seen when label peels off). But the ugly truth shows up when the ugly head is cut open. Please correct me if I'm wrong (I may be wrong).

    kwun pointed out the stringing is not so neat anymore. This should be made known to them and easily corrected with fine tuning of their sewing machine . If final tying up is done by operators (human), training need to be improved. This is a case of Quality control not doing their job and not cost cutting. One day, all corks and goose/duck feathers will be gone or too expensive and we need to move on. Maybe some genius will come up with a good replacement and all shuttlecocks will be made with exact same flight and characteristics using synthetic material. There will be less wastage in manufacturing process and less variation in quality.

    Not very technical. No equation involved
    Last edited by zombiez; 06-21-2012 at 09:30 AM.

  16. #65
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    Kwun,

    What's your finding on this new tube from local store.

    Yesterday, I opened another new tube, same package as this new one on the left. After a game, it is still holding up very good. I cut it open and it is NOT with synthetic material. So I am confused. I will follow through this tube and see what I will get. But is this degraded shuttlecork only for a batch? Or is it mixed with good ones in a tube?

    If it is only for a batch, or all new ones will be the same using synthetic material, then it is a little easier to understand. However, if they are mixed in a tube, then it is something to think about.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    and this is the photo of the two.

    left one is new.
    right one is old.

    and this photo pretty much shows the exterior differences that we have observed.

    difference in font, and difference in leather material.

    there is also the loose string end from the knot in the new one.

    Attachment 124401

  17. #66
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    Agree. As mentioned earlier, I don't understand why three layers. It ONLY makes it look alike a natural cork material.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombiez View Post
    Let's make some technical assessment. It is a fact that cost cutting is part and parcel of the economy. I'm from engineering and manufacturing environment.

    When the shuttlecock hits the racket stringbed, the stringbed "deforms" and the shuttlecock head deforms as well. How much the head deforms depends on the material used. That is part of the reason synthetic shuttlecock behaves differently. Looking at the ugly shuttlecock after usage, it is obvious that the deformation of the middle synthetic material is different from natural cork and didn't fully return to it's original shape thus the ugly shape. I cannot understand the 3 layer approach to save cost except to cheat the user into believing that it is fully natural cork (sorry if I'm wrong). The correct approach to use synthetic material is to use something deforms at a rate similar to cork (if that's possible) and put as 2 layers (the behind layer uses the synthetic material) to reduce variation from original. The result of this change is customer will notice the synthetic material when the label peels off. That's why I mentioned that the 3 layer approach is meant to cheat (cork material seen when label peels off). But the ugly truth shows up when the ugly head is cut open. Please correct me if I'm wrong (I may be wrong).

    kwun pointed out the stringing is not so neat anymore. This should be made known to them and easily corrected with fine tuning of their sewing machine . If final tying up is done by operators (human), training need to be improved. This is a case of Quality control not doing their job and not cost cutting. One day, all corks and goose/duck feathers will be gone or too expensive and we need to move on. Maybe some genius will come up with a good replacement and all shuttlecocks will be made with exact same flight and characteristics using synthetic material. There will be less wastage in manufacturing process and less variation in quality.

    Not very technical. No equation involved

  18. #67
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    I think you need that 3rd cork layer to stick the feather stems into since it's malleable. Can we ascertain if the synthetic material is soft/malleable or hard?

  19. #68
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    I don't think that 3rd layer is necessary. Most only have two layers. Here are a few that I can find around my house. Most are middle or low grade, except RSL Classic.

    Name:  shuttlecock_head.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by madbad View Post
    I think you need that 3rd cork layer to stick the feather stems into since it's malleable. Can we ascertain if the synthetic material is soft/malleable or hard?

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