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  1. #18
    Regular Member gundamzaku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StefanDO View Post
    Hi all!
    Don't laugh at me, because I'm serious here, okay?

    I recently checked out some local badminton clubs and had to realize that they only accept natural feather shuttles. I understand that feather shuttles are regarded superior to nylon shuttles, and in tournaments even at low levels they use feather shuttles rather than nylon shuttles. Consequently, I didn't even dare asking if it's also okay to play with nylon shuttles at those clubs. So far I've been playing at university which focuses on recreational players, so nylon shuttles are more common there.

    Why am I making an issue of all this? Because I'm a vegetarian who doesn't want to support any industry which deals with killing animals. It's often hard, but at least I give my best. Now you may say: "Continue playing at university." However, they don't offer coaching, only playing just for fun. I need coaching to improve technique and tactics.

    I thought about two possible solutions:
    1) Find shuttles which are made of natural feathers but also accepted in clubs
    2) Find shuttles which only look like made of natural feathers (fakes ) - if other players don't like them, they can supply their own shuttles, at least I didn't have to buy feather shuttles

    Anyone can help? Otherwise I don't really know how to get accepted at any club.
    in terms of coaching there're more coaches than just those from clubs. couldn't you find a private coach who is willing to train you with nylon shuttles? granted that when you do play with feather in a competition, your shots might be a tad bit off, but the basic shots can be practiced with plastic shuttles.

  2. #19
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    a feather shuttle is made of almost all natural materials which will decay and eventually go back to nature, while a broken plastic shuttle stays forever if not properly recycled

  3. #20
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    Why do you want to get better if you want to play with synthetic shuttles?

    If you get better you won't have anyone left to play with, they all want to play feather... Also, if you want to improve on your play, start playing with feather shuttles because that will learn you to feel the shuttles in an improved way... There is no point training with synthetic shuttles....

  4. #21
    Regular Member diverdan's Avatar
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    Im not trying to turn this thread into a philosophical debate but is it better for the goose to have some life than no life at all?
    Last edited by diverdan; 07-16-2012 at 03:51 PM.

  5. #22
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diverdan View Post
    Im not trying to turn this thread into a philosophical debate but is it better for the goose to have some life than no life at all?
    You have to keep in mind that the *goose is cooked* anyways (sorry for the idiom), so throwing away the feathers would be wasteful IMO.

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    Default Mindfields suggestion rocks..

    Dear Stefan,

    Respect u for keeping strong with ur vegetarian-ism,and i agree with what mindfields suggested. And since you are willing to pay a bit more for "synthetic goose-like feather", I'm sure there are coaches out there who are willing to coach you, using nylon. Don't let anyone stops you from enjoying badminton, badminton is larger than just the "shuttlecock". Gather people who are keen on the recreation, healthy aspect of the game and some likeminded friends, get organized, and wallaaa... you are on the roll. The serious side of the game will come naturally, who's to say, vegetarian badminton federation might not be far off. Good Luck

  7. #24
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    as being said by everyone, feather from feather shuttlecock is just by product from slaughter house

    they are two different industry, it's not like they slaughter geese for their feather
    IMO, even if you don't buy the shuttlecock, it does not gonna affect how many geese and ducks slaughtered (while if you didn't eat their meat, yes you stopped one duck being slaughtered)

    IMO it is ok to play with feather shuttlecock (with assumption above)

    but at the end it is your choice
    you can form your own club, maybe 4-6 people who don't mind to play with nylon shuttlecock
    Yonex Mavis 2000 is good and the closest you can get to feather (even though still, feather is superior)
    Last edited by Avenger; 08-13-2012 at 10:33 PM.

  8. #25
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    One has to have a more balanced perspective of an issue like this. One way to evaluate the impact of your own decision is to ask 'will my action save more goose or ducks from being slaughtered'?
    Also it can also be argued that some so called vegetarians are guilt of killing living things without realizing it.
    For example the Jains in India, being strict vegetarians, will not eat beansprouts, potatoes, garlic, onions, or eat at night because such actions kill lives such as organism. Beansprout is a living thing and eating them is considered murder to the Zains.
    Again, ask yourself this simple question : are you saving any thing, any life, any organism? Or is it some misguided utopia idealism?

  9. #26
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    If one were to follow the Jains standard of being a vegetarian, then it becomes extremely ascetic but some may say this is the way vegetarians must aspire to.
    Jains do not wear shoes made from animal hides, do not walk until the way ahead is being swept clean with a broom lest they accidentally step on microorganisms or insects/ants and kill them, wear masks on their faces in case they harm flying insects or other microorganisms through swallowing. The list goes on.
    Now, does this make sense? The answer, my friends, is up to you and your conscience, provided always that you gather enough information to form an informed judgement. There is no right or wrong answer.

  10. #27
    Regular Member ucantseeme's Avatar
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    Hello Stefan, when we met next time @RUB we can exchange about this issue. I'm a vegetarian too. Maybe see you on sunday. Joerg.

  11. #28
    Regular Member StefanDO's Avatar
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    With respect to whether I save a goose's life if I don't buy feather shuttles as compared to if I don't buy goose meat: I guess it's the amount that matters. If you buy a tiny bit of meat at a supermarket maybe twice a week or so, I doubt the supermarket would buy more meat (because they calculate in much larger quantities). It's the same with feather shuttles I guess. However, if *everyone* follows this argumentation, things get different: Many people buying meat cause the supermarket to buy more meat or at least not reduce the amount. Many people buying feather shuttles support the industry which pays slaughter houses for the feathers, which indirectly supports slaughter houses. As I want to live with principles which don't support the slaughter industry if shared by everyone, I can't live that way. So I will have to play with nylon shuttles. Actually I don't find them so bad anyway (thanks by the way for the Mavis 2000 tip). To me it rather looks like many of those who complain about nylon shuttles, they underrate them because they are used to feather shuttles, so a big part of what they consider bad about nylon shuttles rather stems from the different feel and handling. But that's just a personal opinion.

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by StefanDO View Post
    With respect to whether I save a goose's life if I don't buy feather shuttles as compared to if I don't buy goose meat: I guess it's the amount that matters. If you buy a tiny bit of meat at a supermarket maybe twice a week or so, I doubt the supermarket would buy more meat (because they calculate in much larger quantities). It's the same with feather shuttles I guess. However, if *everyone* follows this argumentation, things get different: Many people buying meat cause the supermarket to buy more meat or at least not reduce the amount. Many people buying feather shuttles support the industry which pays slaughter houses for the feathers, which indirectly supports slaughter houses. As I want to live with principles which don't support the slaughter industry if shared by everyone, I can't live that way. So I will have to play with nylon shuttles. Actually I don't find them so bad anyway (thanks by the way for the Mavis 2000 tip). To me it rather looks like many of those who complain about nylon shuttles, they underrate them because they are used to feather shuttles, so a big part of what they consider bad about nylon shuttles rather stems from the different feel and handling. But that's just a personal opinion.
    I am also a non-meat eater but I have no problems with using goose feather shuttlecocks. Perhaps different people make decisions based on what information they have. Less information usually means more questionable decisions.
    I look at the cycle of life on a bigger scale. Since all living things, including plants, vegetables, animals, fishes, and even bacteria are all related and exist in an eco-system that sustains itself I would think twice before taking upon myself to try to change such a highly evolved system that has sustained life on earth.
    Do you know that platics can do more harm to the eco-system than feathers? Plastics are non biodegradable whereas feathers are organic material that biodegrades that will eventually serve as natural fertilizers for mother earth. Plastics also use disproportionately more energy to make, fouling the environment.
    Also the supply of feathers hugely outnumber its demand, even if the whole world were to use feather shuttlecocks. The excess is being dumped as rubbish which biodegrades and become natural fertilizers later. Contrast this with plastics with its negative impact on mother earth, from its production to its throw-away stage.
    Now, would you want to come up with something to stop sharks from eating their daily meals, which also are living things, no different from geese or ducks?

  13. #30
    Regular Member StefanDO's Avatar
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    While I agree with you regarding recycling of plastics vs. feathers, not directly or indirectly supporting animal killing industry is of higher priority to me.
    I wouldn't compare our situation with that of sharks or other animals who can hardly resist their instinct which kind of dictates killing other animals in order to survive.
    Anyway, I think I've commented enough on this issue - I have no further points...

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by StefanDO View Post
    With respect to whether I save a goose's life if I don't buy feather shuttles as compared to if I don't buy goose meat: I guess it's the amount that matters. If you buy a tiny bit of meat at a supermarket maybe twice a week or so, I doubt the supermarket would buy more meat (because they calculate in much larger quantities). It's the same with feather shuttles I guess. However, if *everyone* follows this argumentation, things get different: Many people buying meat cause the supermarket to buy more meat or at least not reduce the amount. Many people buying feather shuttles support the industry which pays slaughter houses for the feathers, which indirectly supports slaughter houses. As I want to live with principles which don't support the slaughter industry if shared by everyone, I can't live that way. So I will have to play with nylon shuttles. Actually I don't find them so bad anyway (thanks by the way for the Mavis 2000 tip). To me it rather looks like many of those who complain about nylon shuttles, they underrate them because they are used to feather shuttles, so a big part of what they consider bad about nylon shuttles rather stems from the different feel and handling. But that's just a personal opinion.
    actually, I have a very funny theory with your point of view regarding indirectly supporting slaughter house
    slaughter house get their machine and knife from factory
    in this case, the factory support the slaughter house indirectly (by providing them tools to kill)
    better not to use those factory made machine and knifes since they support the slaughter house

    also, the poultry where they kept thee chicken and all usually use wood as material
    these woods come from factory which usually also build other thing such as chair, table, door, etc
    since the wood factory indirectly support the slaughter house, you should be careful when buying wood product

    also supermarket that selling the meat obviously support the slaughter house, you might want not to shop into this supermarket again (so they got less money to support the slaughter house)

    oh yeah, don't forget duck, pig (gelatin), and cow fat is used in many product such as sweets, medicine, cosmetic, yogurt, etc
    that's a lot of products you should avoid

    well, no need to take this post seriously, I just want to make a point, there should be a limit for everything

  15. #32
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    StefanDo, how true are you to your principle of not wanting to support the slaughtering of animals for food consumption? Or are you merely against the unnecessary slaughter of animals that are not intended as food for consumption?
    If you want to avoid being accused of double standard, you should also not wear shoes, use wallets, drive any car, wear gloves or clothes, or use any badminton rackets that use any animal hide. Now, how 'clean' are you on this.
    Perhaps you are still very young. As one gets older one gathers more information to form a better and more balanced decision.

  16. #33
    Regular Member StefanDO's Avatar
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    Of course you have to draw a line somewhere - so it's hard to always prevent support of industries which indirectly support killing of animals. However, there are cases which are a lot more obvious than others (like consumption of meat). I just try to live by my principles. Regarding products which are somehow associated with animal killing industry, I always try to go for alternative products, but it's a question of availability. Like when I started being vegetarian (about 19 years ago), I couldn't find gelatin-free yoghurt at the supermarket, however I didn't want to forego yoghurts, so I bought them (while being angry that they put gelatin into it, which is not necessary at all, and I'm happy that today yoghurts are often gelatin-free). So you may say I'm not strict, and it's more or less true in this case, but in practice it's just not easy to avoid indirectly supporting animal killing industry (as has already been shown by many examples in previous postings). Anyway, like I said, if alternative products are available at allowable expenses, I go for them. This brings me back to shuttles - if no plastic shuttles were available, I guess I'd go for feather shuttles, because I love badminton (but as with the yoghurts, I'd be angry if no plastic shuttles were available). I'm not strict? Right - but better than not caring at all I guess...

  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by StefanDO View Post
    Of course you have to draw a line somewhere - so it's hard to always prevent support of industries which indirectly support killing of animals. However, there are cases which are a lot more obvious than others (like consumption of meat). I just try to live by my principles. Regarding products which are somehow associated with animal killing industry, I always try to go for alternative products, but it's a question of availability. Like when I started being vegetarian (about 19 years ago), I couldn't find gelatin-free yoghurt at the supermarket, however I didn't want to forego yoghurts, so I bought them (while being angry that they put gelatin into it, which is not necessary at all, and I'm happy that today yoghurts are often gelatin-free). So you may say I'm not strict, and it's more or less true in this case, but in practice it's just not easy to avoid indirectly supporting animal killing industry (as has already been shown by many examples in previous postings). Anyway, like I said, if alternative products are available at allowable expenses, I go for them. This brings me back to shuttles - if no plastic shuttles were available, I guess I'd go for feather shuttles, because I love badminton (but as with the yoghurts, I'd be angry if no plastic shuttles were available). I'm not strict? Right - but better than not caring at all I guess...
    Almost all supermarket yogurts are rubbish, if you are a yogurt enthusiast. The best and most healthy yogurts are self make and it is so easy and so much cheaper. Gelatin in yogurt? That is a no no in yogurt.
    Personally I make yogurt myself in a two-liter container each time. You can control its taste with different types of milk, from goat to cow or buffalo. You can also control its viscosity by using some common sense instead of that silly supermarket gelatin type. Viscosity can be made thicker and firmer with a thousand and one ways. If your milk medium is fresh milk then add a little powder milk to thicken. Or you can use a sea weed called aga aga to do the same job.
    However, yogurt is made from milk that comes from animals. Although the cows or goats are not slaughtered these milk are not strictly vegetarian.

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