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  1. #52
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    CJ did not celebrate when he won AE. His expression was like, this is just another title or maybe, the money is not enough. I will go for Korea Open , anytime. Or INA Open when it offers more $$$ than Korea Open. The previous prestige of AE cannot last if the prize money does not keep up with inflation. The glamour, the tradition is great but show me the money!
    ..with a more reserved personality, did you expect CJ to do a robot dance & strip down ala LinDan after LD beat LCW in the 2010 TC?..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oaVQwbBAWc (CJ's celebration @ 6:35)..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtK-g-EQjc0 (LD's robot dance)..

  2. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    CJ did not celebrate when he won AE. His expression was like, this is just another title or maybe, the money is not enough. I will go for Korea Open , anytime. Or INA Open when it offers more $$$ than Korea Open. The previous prestige of AE cannot last if the prize money does not keep up with inflation. The glamour, the tradition is great but show me the money!
    you maybe right about the money. but i think it depends on the players themselves, how they see the AE tournament. some player maybe fight for money as for the others SS/P, but maybe some players see it more than it. i don't know.

  3. #54
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    In terms of natural talent and skills wise, TH is one of the best shuttler out there on par with ZJH. In this department he is definitely better than LD (who is very much a developed player) that does not make any headlines during his teenage years as a player. OTH, at just 17 y.o where most players at this age is still fighting for the world junior champion accolade, TH was already playing in the AE Finals.

    On his achievements, he has 2 AG (1 more than LD), 1 OG, 1 WC, multiple Thomas Cup winner (6 times to LD's 5)as well as winning the IO 6 times as well (not SS yet as a matter of timing) to boast. He achieved all these before LD (without any help) and you simply cannot expect someone who'd started his career in the professional circuit during the late 90's to still conquer the badminton world in current years.

    Anyway titles won is not exactly the most accurate way to rate a player. Talent and natural abilities are more so as these are gifted. They exudes certain court craft that left the spectators in awe. It couldn't be trained or developed.

    So, for me TH is ahead of LCW and LD.
    Last edited by flite; 07-23-2012 at 12:24 PM.

  4. #55
    Regular Member *chance*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flite View Post
    multiple Thomas Cup winner (6 times to LD's 5)
    I'm a huge Taufik fan, but didn't he only win the Thomas Cup in 2002? o

  5. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by *chance* View Post
    I'm a huge Taufik fan, but didn't he only win the Thomas Cup in 2002? o
    Twice actually, 2000 as well...

  6. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by *chance* View Post
    I'm a huge Taufik fan, but didn't he only win the Thomas Cup in 2002? o
    Correction. TH participated in TC 6 times (not won it) and was the winner in 2000 and 2002.

    Thanks for highlighting. My bad!

  7. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by flite View Post
    In terms of natural talent and skills wise, TH is one of the best shuttler out there on par with ZJH. In this department he is definitely better than LD (who is very much a developed player) that does not make any headlines during his teenage years as a player. OTH, at just 17 y.o where most players at this age is still fighting for the world junior champion accolade, TH was already playing in the AE Finals.

    On his achievements, he has 2 AG (1 more than LD), 1 OG, 1 WC, multiple Thomas Cup winner (6 times to LD's 5)as well as winning the IO 6 times as well (not SS yet as a matter of timing) to boast. He achieved all these before LD (without any help) and you simply cannot expect someone who'd started his career in the professional circuit during the late 90's to still conquer the badminton world in current years.

    Anyway titles won is not exactly the most accurate way to rate a player. Talent and natural abilities are more so as these are gifted. They exudes certain court craft that left the spectators in awe. It couldn't be trained or developed.

    So, for me TH is ahead of LCW and LD.
    Lin Dan won 5 Thomas Cups (unbeaten in all finals), won 4 WCs in six appearances, won 5 All England out of 8 final appearances, won 5 China Open, 4 China Masters, 5 Hong Kong Open, 3 Denmark Open and many more.

    Seems like Taufik is only good in his own backyard, elsewhere he seems "not so dominant".....talent doesnt seem to make a difference here in terms of titles counts

    Lin Dan (49 + many more to come) >> Taufik (only 23 titles)

  8. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    Lin Dan won 5 Thomas Cups (unbeaten in all finals), won 4 WCs in six appearances, won 5 All England out of 8 final appearances, won 5 China Open, 4 China Masters, 5 Hong Kong Open, 3 Denmark Open and many more.

    Seems like Taufik is only good in his own backyard, elsewhere he seems "not so dominant".....talent doesnt seem to make a difference here in terms of titles counts

    Lin Dan (49 + many more to come) >> Taufik (only 23 titles)
    Nope! Besides the I.O all TH majors are won outside of Indonesia. Unlike LD, the 08' Olympic and 10' AG are won in his own backyard.

    Ans so what! LD can carry on winning up to 100 titles but to me that is not exactly the benchmark I am looking for to justify a player's greatness as what already stated in my previous post.
    Last edited by flite; 07-23-2012 at 01:20 PM.

  9. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by flite View Post
    multiple Thomas Cup winner (6 times to LD's 5)
    as chance and LD rules stated, he did win it in 2000 and 2002 (CMIIW), so from when are the rest 4?

    Anyway titles won is not exactly the most accurate way to rate a player. Talent and natural abilities are more so as these are gifted. They exudes certain court craft that left the spectators in awe. It couldn't be trained or developed.

    So, for me TH is ahead of LCW and LD.
    talent is one factor of course, but when someone can't convert talent to some achievements, what is the use of talent then in this case?

    i'm not sure if TH is the most talented player in the world (but of course, he maybe is!), but then i would prefer players like LD and LCW (as you may stated as the less talented ones in this case) because they're willing to work hard in compensation for their lack of talent. and yes, the history already showed us that in this case, player with less talent + work harder achieved more than player with the best talent but indiscipline.

    yes, LCW might haven't win any OG, AG or WC, but he's simply dominating the superseries tournament and hold the WR#1 for 3 years or more. he's just a bit unlucky because there is another player as good as him in his path in the form of LD.
    compare TH to LD? beside have 1 AG gold medal more than LD, what else?
    so to say TH is ahead of LCW and LD, for me, maybe yes in term of talent. but just it! in the term of achievement, the record said it all. i would rated LCW and LD ahead of him.

    peace

  10. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    As far as I m concerned, Taufik is the greatest. He has won the big titles early, without assists and all outside his homeground. He s the most naturally gifted badminton MS, wowing the crowds at an early age. He has the courage to continue playing all over the world, (after having won all that matters to him) knowing he s likely to lose to a youngster, so they can brag that they have defeated the most talented Taufik.
    I have to agree... Taufik is a huge talent.. Lin dan has a lot more money and coaches at his disposal than Taufik does, also Taufik is more entertaining than Lin Dan or LCW. I still think Taufik has the best technique the game has ever seen.

  11. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad's fan View Post
    as chance and LD rules stated, he did win it in 2000 and 2002 (CMIIW), so from when are the rest 4?

    See post #57.


    talent is one factor of course, but when someone can't convert talent to some achievements, what is the use of talent then in this case?

    What achievements are you talking about here? 5 Olympics and 10 WCs?


    i'm not sure if TH is the most talented player in the world (but of course, he maybe is!), but then i would prefer players like LD and LCW (as you may stated as the less talented ones in this case) because they're willing to work hard in compensation for their lack of talent. and yes, the history already showed us that in this case, player with less talent + work harder achieved more than player with the best talent but indiscipline.

    Generally yes but not necessarily. Those you are referring to has talent + hardwork and discipline to be where they are today. Given, not all players could achieve the same milestone. What I was referring to was TH immense talent which is above all players I've seen, including LD of course.

    yes, LCW might haven't win any OG, AG or WC, but he's simply dominating the superseries tournament and hold the WR#1 for 3 years or more. he's just a bit unlucky because there is another player as good as him in his path in the form of LD.
    compare TH to LD? beside have 1 AG gold medal more than LD, what else?
    so to say TH is ahead of LCW and LD, for me, maybe yes in term of talent. but just it! in the term of achievement, the record said it all. i would rated LCW and LD ahead of him.

    peace
    Did you ever bother to read other people's post before you give your comments. I said this because I remembered it happened once not too long ago in LD's thread and I don't want to go in big circles anymore. You rate a players based on records and that's you but not me.

    peace of course.
    Last edited by flite; 07-23-2012 at 01:38 PM.

  12. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad's fan View Post
    as chance and LD rules stated, he did win it in 2000 and 2002 (CMIIW), so from when are the rest 4?



    talent is one factor of course, but when someone can't convert talent to some achievements, what is the use of talent then in this case?

    i'm not sure if TH is the most talented player in the world (but of course, he maybe is!), but then i would prefer players like LD and LCW (as you may stated as the less talented ones in this case) because they're willing to work hard in compensation for their lack of talent. and yes, the history already showed us that in this case, player with less talent + work harder achieved more than player with the best talent but indiscipline.

    yes, LCW might haven't win any OG, AG or WC, but he's simply dominating the superseries tournament and hold the WR#1 for 3 years or more. he's just a bit unlucky because there is another player as good as him in his path in the form of LD.
    compare TH to LD? beside have 1 AG gold medal more than LD, what else?
    so to say TH is ahead of LCW and LD, for me, maybe yes in term of talent. but just it! in the term of achievement, the record said it all. i would rated LCW and LD ahead of him.

    peace
    Yes that's the thing you see. Besides winning the three major tournaments, there's nothing else to shout about when you compare him with LD and LCW.

    LCW is the most successful player in Super Series. Sure he didnt win any gold medal of the three but being a WR1, he proved that he was not ranked for nothing and he managed to reach to the finals of those tournament only be beaten by the better opponent sadly.

    Lin Dan, the record speaks for itself. If you wanna keep challenging Lin Dan's winning credibility just because he has the home factor, look at Taufik first before you comment.

    He has only win most of his titles from South East Asia (including Indonesia) but did he win the million dollar Korea Open, Denmark Open, Hong Kong Open, China Open, Japan Open and All England?

    Beside talent, there's nothing else I could come out with in Taufik's context.

    Ask the bwf commentators or officials; those who decide who deserves to get into the Hall Of Fame. Based on Taufik's form and results in the Super Series since 2007 as well as his contribution in the six Thomas Cup appearance, would they agree to say he is the greatest of all time?

    I can bet all my savings to you; they will give you a straight stare and say No because they believe arguably it's Lin Dan followed by Lee Chong Wei.

  13. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caarl View Post
    I have to agree... Taufik is a huge talent.. Lin dan has a lot more money and coaches at his disposal than Taufik does, also Taufik is more entertaining than Lin Dan or LCW. I still think Taufik has the best technique the game has ever seen.
    Exactly. Besides having won all the majors except the AE he has the talent that is second to none even until today. No doubt records are important but its mend to be broken in times to come. Many used to say that Pete Sampras records couldn't be broken but look what happen now. But pure talent is rare and very hard to come by. We had one in ZJH but that was 30 years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flite View Post
    Did you ever bother to read other people's post before you give your comments. I said this because I remembered it happened once not too long ago in LD's thread and I don't want to go in big circles anymore. You rate a players based on records and that's you but not me.

    peace of course.
    sorry, my bad. but post #57 hasn't been there when i type my post.

    being a so talented player like taufik, with a little more discipline lifestyle, he might would achieve more, and the title 'greatest of all time' would be his, convincingly, talent and achivements aspects. but as for now, people will say he has the best talent, and it's all. with respect to TH's achievements, i would still say that his achievement still not the best. ideally, he can achieve more and contribute more to his nation in team's events, but sadly that's not the case.

    about rating players on their achievements, i think it's not just me actually. afterall, what is the better measurement for one athlete's achievement if not the record?

  15. #66
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    You can't measure popularity in titles now can you

    http://9gag.com/gag/4828841

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad's fan View Post
    sorry, my bad. but post #57 hasn't been there when i type my post.

    being a so talented player like taufik, with a little more discipline lifestyle, he might would achieve more, and the title 'greatest of all time' would be his, convincingly, talent and achivements aspects. but as for now, people will say he has the best talent, and it's all. with respect to TH's achievements, i would still say that his achievement still not the best. ideally, he can achieve more and contribute more to his nation in team's events, but sadly that's not the case.

    about rating players on their achievements, i think it's not just me actually. afterall, what is the better measurement for one athlete's achievement if not the record?
    Some truths are quite hard to accept admittedly. His achievements are still not the best; just accept in black and white. Talent-wise actually it's hard to say. If Axelsen wins the Olympic gold, obviously people are going to claim he is the most talented player ever. Speaking of talent, that's a subjective metric; you will can claim whatever you like.

    We will find out sooner or later whether Taufik Hidayat deserves to be in the Hall of Fame because that's the only hall to remember Great Players. As far as I am concerned talent is not enough.

    Lin Dan, Lee Chong Wei and Peter Gade actually by right have already earn themselves a place in the Hall of Fame on the basis of their continuous contribution and commitment to train, work hard and do their best to produce good results in ANY tournament regardless of it being major or minor (especially the Super Series; the most important season that makes badminton popular nowadays).

    Talent-aside, Taufik's problems with the PBSIs and lack of commitment/passion to participate seriously in the SS tournaments in the last six years (that lapse of off form) and his habit of only to win the tournaments that he thinks matter to him only, most probably give the BWF judges to rethink about considering inducting him in the Hall of Fame.

    Just my opinion. I will find out soon enough after he retires.

  17. #68
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Let me repeat the answer to this useless thread and put and end to it ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bad's fan View Post
    you maybe right about the money. but i think it depends on the players themselves, how they see the AE tournament. some player maybe fight for money as for the others SS/P, but maybe some players see it more than it. i don't know.
    ----------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by repentedboy View Post
    Lee Chong Wei and Peter Gade actually by right have already earn themselves a place in the Hall of Fame on the basis of their continuous contribution and commitment to train, work hard and do their best to produce good results in ANY tournament regardless of it being major or minor (especially the Super Series; the most important season that makes badminton popular nowadays).
    If Gade had won a medal in any previous OG he likely would have retired four years ago and as far as LCW goes ... Chen Hong Plus?
    Last edited by demolidor; 07-23-2012 at 02:26 PM.

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