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  1. #69
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    LYB: "Why let our players destroy one another!"

    http://video.2012.sina.com.cn/p/olym...761820011.html

  2. #70
    Regular Member axl886's Avatar
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    Cross-posted...

    "Just wondering: if the CHN duo hasn't thrown the match away, would the KOR pair have played normally or would they be the sole offenders in that match then... any idea?"

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    I've read that the BWF's own rules clearly state it is an offence to not play to your best ability. So why all the surprise at the DQs? It's good that this happened so blatantly at an event hosted by another organisation thus forcing the BWF into enforcing this rule for once. Maybe it will force them to rethink how they deal with the larger issue present in the game today.

    I don't care if there are protest files ALL the DQs should be upheld. Saying it's the fault of the tournament structure is like blaming Walmart for shoplifting because they keep their merchandise on open shelves where people can touch it rather than behind glass. Saying that KOR and INA did it because CHN did it first is like saying you shouldn't be charged for shoplifting if you can show that someone else did it first.

  4. #72
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    The players knew the rules of the tournament well in advance and had ample time to make their opinions known as to how it could have better been arranged. Taking the rules into your own hands is not an acceptable way to behave.

    If the players were so strongly against the group format they should have just not played in the tournament. I guess that's what they are doing now

  5. #73
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    seriously disqualification is too severe. The countries may be at fault, but none the less, so is the federation. The countries would not be in such a controversial situation, but for the federation's ignorant decision of changing the draw from knockout to round robin. If the federation had thought through it clearly, then they would have identified this issue of match fixing. With a dead rubber, players are more likely to fix their matches, and have it advantage their country's chances of winning a medal. If it were knockout, then every player would have only once chance to make it to the round of 16, quarters etc etc.

    The federation may say that this change would expand Badminton's awareness throughout the world, however it makes no difference. If people like badminton; even without commercialising it, the world would be aware of this sport. Right now, the Federation really have made an impact on the sport's awareness; a negative view.

    in regards to Korea blaming China, that's just absolutely ridiculous. How can Korea blame China for their voluntary misconduct? No one forced Korea or Indonesia to lose their games. It was all done tactically, and by their own choice. Because the federation decided to change the draw, they should then be aware of the tactics that countries will adapt, in order to win. They can't expect to rely on the Olympic Spirit, and rules they have set. The rules in this situation are clearly not applicable. Because round robin can cause so much controversy, as it had this time, a different set of rules should have been created. The rule "best effort in winning a match" is clearly unacceptable. What is best effort? To the chinese, they stated they wanted to preserve energy. In preserving energy, they used only what was necessary, which can ideally be argued as best effort. The terms are way too broad to be construed in a narrow interpretation.

    Furthermore, "cause detriment to the sport". The federation knew of such rule, and by changing the format to round robin, they should have been aware of the possible controversies that would come about from the tournament. Because the federation should have been aware; yet they clearly disregarded such consideration, the sportsmen whom fixed their matches cannot be considered as causing a detriment to the sport.

  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destricto_Ense View Post
    The players knew the rules of the tournament well in advance and had ample time to make their opinions known as to how it could have better been arranged. Taking the rules into your own hands is not an acceptable way to behave.

    If the players were so strongly against the group format they should have just not played in the tournament. I guess that's what they are doing now
    I agree in some aspects. I'm guessing you would have a problem with protests and vigilantism etc if that is where you stand? Action must be taken if the authority or system is corrupt or unfit to rule. If no one takes things into their own hands, I'm more than certain everyone would've just rolled over and let Hitler win WWII. I support their actions, and I'm sure the players will voice their opinions once it hits their country or affects themselves personally. BWF will get hit one way or another. Looking back at the video of their matches, all the players and the look on their faces when they played service mistake after another. They weren't happy to be recieved that way by the crowd. They know they aren't playing right. But they also know it's important to do so. A Gold medal and prestigious honor/glory is on the line. And both weren't losing a chance at grabbing it, just enhancing it. This decision definitely doesn't feel right.

    It's not as simple as saying since they knew it was group format ahead of time, and they feel strongly about it, they shouldn't play. It's Olympics. When do you ever give up the chance for a Gold medal? and technically, losing group play doesn't forfeit the chance of getting a shot at the Gold medal either. Lose the battle, win the war. If you wanted competition badly enough, and the fight of the best, you should have had it single elimination. Which brings to the point that ties my upper paragraph, why did BWF change it anyways from the previous Olympics? What was so wrong with the last few tournaments? Nothing like this big happened. So why change? Maybe it's time to contemplate that it may not be the players at fault, since they are playing under the system and formats, and the fault is at who sets out the formats and uses the system.

  7. #75
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    Default Why Now? Especially THE OLYMPICS

    Why implement the group stage now? Round robin in all sports history is and will be a stage where seeting one up for the next round happens.So have we seen any football teams get disqualified for sending on a 2nd string so to rest players? Players not putting in effort? Or setting up a tie with a weaker opponent?This Olympics is steadfastly becoming a laughing stock.- Japan Men Gymnastics Team F, Silver after enquiry into a low score.- Korean Women Fencing SF, missed out on a Gold medal chance after electronic fault of timer resulted in extra time for her opponent to get an addition point. 1hr of appealing process, which included submmiting a written appeal which includes a CASH deposit ended up in a no case.... due to 'not in the rule book situation'...- An Asian athelete denied entry to 'Ladies', because she does not look like one.- Sour grapes deflamation of China's 16 year old 400m Medley winner was using drugs, because her WR timing was too good. The US coach did not receive any action from FINA. Wasnt Micheal Phelps 'too good' the last time round? hmm....Anyways.... Fruits of thoughts. And... LET THE MADNESS BEGIN

  8. #76
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    im wit' you bro!

  9. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXazn_romeoXx View Post
    I agree with you here. The system is definitely the wrong party here, and not the players. Therefore, you should fix the system and people who run the system, not players who play under the system. There's lots of hate to China, individually, even though Korea and Indonesia are involved. Either the guise is "sportsmanship" or something else, it's because China wins too much, and it's not fair. I think life isn't fair. It's too bad, but someone in this world is always better than you. If the "sportsmanship" is that important, why don't be ban players for stall tactics, screaming after points and towel downs? I just don't see physically how it harms to let the other team win, especially when you have nothing to lose. Ethically, yes, but systems aren't perfectly ethical either. Why should lower seeded teams face top seeded teams first? Ethically, they should have a fair shot at winning the Gold medal too. Why don't they face teams of their calibre and then up? Or have the top seeded teams start with a negative point total. That would be ethically correct because top teams "smoke and destroy" low teams. Then it's all fair. I know I'm going far with this, but that's because this IS THAT silly. People need to know it's BWF's fault, and that changes must be made.

    By the way, I can bet you that none of this "pretending to try, and try to lose" stuff will happen from here on out until the end of the Olympics. Why? You think it's because they sent a message? No. It's because now they actually ARE playing for a medal. You lose, you go home. Knock-out style. Which is EXACTLY the way they should've started in the first place. Disappointing...
    So... as long as there is incentive to cheat it is ok or understandable for someone to cheat?

  10. #78
    Regular Member aramistuscany's Avatar
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    Olympics: Eight barred after badminton scandal rocks Games

    LONDON: Eight badminton players were dramatically disqualified from Olympic competition on Wednesday after a scandal over "throwing" matches left the sport in uproar.

    Four pairs in the women's doubles competition -- one from China, one from Indonesia and two from South Korea -- were barred after being hit by disciplinary charges when the Badminton World Federation (BWF) took action.

    A source with knowledge of the proceedings confirmed to AFP that the eight women had been disqualified for trying to deliberately lose matches in the round robin phase to manipulate the knockout draw.

    The eight badminton players at the heart of the scandal had been charged with "not using one's best efforts to win a match" and "conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport."

    Angry spectators jeered and booed the players after they appeared to deliberately serve into the net or hit the shuttlecock long or wide.

    They were allegedly attempting to manipulate the final standings in the first-round group stage, with two pairs who had already qualified apparently wanting to lose to secure a favourable draw in the next round.

    The Group A match between the powerful Chinese top seeds Yu Yang and Wang Xiaoli and unseeded South Korean pair Jung Kyung and Kim Ha-Na came under scrutiny by the BWF after the Chinese lost heavily.

    The longest rally in the match was just four shots.

    Their defeat meant Yu and Wang avoided playing fellow Chinese pair Tian Qing and Zhao Yunlei, who had finished second in Group D, in the quarter-finals which are due to be played later Wednesday.

    Yu said after the match: "We've already qualified, so why would we waste energy? It's not necessary to go out hard again when the knockout rounds are tomorrow."

    After the match, South Korean head coach Sung Han-Kook reportedly said: "It's not the Olympic spirit to play like this. How could the number one pair in the world play like this?"

    China's Olympic delegation has launched an investigation into the allegations, state media said.

    "The Chinese Olympic Committee... opposes any kind of behaviour to violate the sporting spirit and morality," Xinhua news agency quoted a Chinese Olympic spokesman as saying.

    London Olympics chairman Sebastian Coe described the scandal as "depressing" and "unacceptable" but officials said spectators who had paid to watch the farcical matches would not be refunded.

    "It's depressing," Coe said. "Who wants to sit through something like that? It is unacceptable."

    - AFP/fa/wm


    Seems like a firm decision and not provisional.

  11. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    So... as long as there is incentive to cheat it is ok or understandable for someone to cheat?
    i dont think xxazn means its ok to cheat.

    The countries are undoubtedly at fault too. There is no argument out of that. but the thing is, the federation themselves are the root of this controversy. The countries wouldnt have needed to use such tactics, but for the federation's change in format. DSQ the players is too severe. There should be other forms of punishment, because if the players are being punished for acting in a manner caused by the format changes, then the federation themselves should be punished. Because the federation cant really be punished, then it is only an incentive to punish the players in some other method.

  12. #80
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Default 4 WD Teams disqualified

    I just heard over the TV that the four WD teams from CHN, KOR and INA that were involved in manipulating the results of their matches are disqualified.

    If this is the case, it is high time that BWF shows the world that they are fed up with match fixing and the like and that they mean business by punishing those involved at the highest level at this London Olympics.

    We should expect prompt headlines in the media.

  13. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    So... as long as there is incentive to cheat it is ok or understandable for someone to cheat?
    That's not correct either, or what my point was. My point being a pressured situation, where players must act to enhance the way they can play the game to the best of their ability, with the best possible chance at winning. This involves something more meaningful than world championships. Olympic glory is a lifetime. We still mention Taufik today, even though his victory was 8 years ago! Almost a decade! I'm just saying that it's not cheating in the sense that the rules allow a team to lose in group play, but still be able to qualify for the quarterfinals. With that in mind, teams/pairs are able to jockey for position of which place they want to be in, top draw or bottom draw. Match fixing is unapplicable of a term. They don't know who they're going to face, so they can't really fix the match to play specfically 1 party. Just a a "chance" to play them. And also, match fixing involves knowing beforehand a clear winner and a clear loser. BOTH of which we did not know ahead of time. Why? Because BOTH wanted to lose. So having established that this isn't match fixing or against the rules of the format, they are technically not cheating.

    They are cheating:

    1: Olympic ideals/oath
    2: Ethics and sportsmanship/competitiveness
    3: BWF's system and rules - which I have argued that it isn't fit to govern if their rules themselves aren't ethical themselves. Broad terms, umbrella terms, wishy washy decision making (like changing the format/scoring system after a successful tournaments) Why? Something works, not broken, don't fix it.

    So yes, and no, to answer you =] I'm not defending or condoning the actions. I'm just saying this thing roots one way. And the problem is bigger than the players. It's the system and the governing body.

  14. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    LYB: "Why let our players destroy one another!"

    http://video.2012.sina.com.cn/p/olym...761820011.html
    Hey LYB this is competition Y U NO ??????

  15. #83
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    i just read, india have just raised a claim that the match against JPN and CTP should be examined, as to whether they played within the olympic spirit.

    the federation ****ed up so bad this time. not only is there a controversy now as to match fixing, but subsequently countries whom mindlessly appeal, in hopes of getting into the quarters. This is all the good work of the federation changing the format. Great JOB!

  16. #84
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    It's not acceptable, but it's understandable. Each pair got the correct punishment imo. The argument from the Korean's of "they started it" is complete BS, just because the other team started it does not give you the right to do the same.

    With all that being said, when it comes down to it, it really is the system to fault. This would have never happened if they just stuck to a normal knock out draw. Tell me how i'll be judged and i'll tell you how i'll perform. That is the best way to describe this situtation. If you remove these incentives to throw a match you remove all these problems.

  17. #85
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    this is a really well written article.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympic...g-matches.html

    Eight badminton players booted from Olympic tournament for throwing matches

    LONDON – Olympic badminton authorities booted eight players out of the games' tournament for attempting to throw matches, but the real culprits are the officials who organized the event.

    Two South Korean pairs, a Chinese and an Indonesian team will be stripped of their place in the quarterfinals unless an appeal against the punishment is granted. All four teams were determined to have tried to lose their final matches in the women's doubles group stage in order to secure a more favorable draw in the knockout round.

    While the matches led to ugly scenes of players deliberately serving into the net while the Wembley Arena crowd booed and jeered, it is the organizers of this event who are responsible for allowing the tanking to happen in the first place. By implementing a controversial group system instead of a single-elimination format as used previously, Games chiefs left themselves open to the kind of nightmare that transpired late Tuesday

    When highly rated Chinese team Tian Qing and Zhao Yunlei surprisingly finished second in their group, it suddenly became more beneficial for group opponents Wang Xiaoli and Yu Yang of China and Kim Ha-na and Jung Kyung-eun of South Korea to lose and avoid meeting them. After Wang and Yu capitulated amid a series of embarrassing mistakes, they then became the newest opponent to avoid. Therefore, Ha Jung-eun and Kim Min-jung of South Korea and Meiliana Juahari andGreysia Polii of Indonesia then needed to lose to avoid them, leading to another farcical match of little effort.
    The pairings could all afford to lose, having guaranteed a qualifying spot by winning their first two group matches. China's Wang Xiaoli and Yu Yang (Reuters)
    The disqualification of the teams has created a logistical nightmare. As of Wednesday it was still being decided whether to simply have the four remaining teams in the competition play the semifinals and cancel the quarterfinals session, or to promote teams that had already been knocked out to take their place.
    In the badminton community, there has been widespread fury at an incident that has thoroughly besmirched the sport. "It was sickening, disgusting," said retired British badminton great Gail Emms, who won a silver medal at the 2004 Olympic Games. "They should be banned."
    Chinese badminton authorities promised to look into the matter independently. However, suspicions that Chinese players have regularly thrown matches against teammates in the past are rife.
    The real issue here is that this is a problem that could have been foreseen and it is the main reason why a group system in a tournament such as this doesn't really work. Table tennis caught on a decade ago, getting rid of the groups in singles and doubles play after the 2000 Sydney Games.
    "People will do whatever they can to get an advantage," said former American track star Michael Johnson, commentating for the BBC. "The only way to stop it is to change the rules."
    Those rules with surely change but it is sadly too late for this tournament. There is no attempt here to defend the actions of the players, who cast their sport in the worst possible light and created the most humiliating of incidents. Badminton does not get many chances to show itself off on a big stage, and the theory that all publicity is good publicity doesn't really wash in this instance.
    But temptation should have been taken out of the players' grasp. What they did was wrong. It was ugly. It was completely against the Olympic ideal.
    But it wasn't cheating. The only cheating that took place was from the organizers, who shortchanged the public and did their sport a disservice.

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