User Tag List

Page 18 of 23 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 LastLast
Results 290 to 306 of 385
  1. #290
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Santa Clara, California, United States
    Posts
    35,920
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    in some sports, people actually look for faults as proper game strategy.

    what is different in badminton is that our values and expectations are different. so it is hard to mix the two.

  2. #291
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    904
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yan.v View Post
    First of all, what these players did was not "Sport".



    There was no physical activity or entertainment during that game.

    Also, the teams that participated in the QF were still top 40 teams in the world. It's not like they put random people on the court.

    You can say that the games weren't as good as games between the top 5 teams, but saying that the games weren't of quality is pure elitism/fanboyism coming from someone who couldn't even beat these players even if they played with their wrong hands. There is such a big skill gap between you and these players that saying they are bad or can't produce quality play is pretentious, pessimistic and stupid.

    Being disappointed that you can't see all of the top 5 teams is one thing, but insulting the other players isn't right. Instead of being pissy, you should get over it and enjoy the games, because they were quality games.
    I realize I sound very rude in this post. My apologies.

    I got frustrated of reading all those "crap QF" posts :\

  3. #292
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gamelessx25 View Post
    We ourselves is the audience, we feel good after a winner, and fault ourselves after making a bad shot decision. We are our own judges. Could I have beaten that person doing X instead of Y? That's entertainment, we engage our minds and bodies in a struggle to best our opponent. If something that's entertaining... wouldn't that make it entertainment?

    What's your definition of entertainment vs entertaining? You got it from the article, so paste their definition.
    Here's the article =] have a read

    Source: http://www.mississauga.com/iphone/sp...or-the-birdies

    Disqualifications simply for the birdies
    August 2, 2012 00:08:00
    LONDON, ENGLAND -- Reflecting on the decision of four badminton teams to throw their games here in order to get a better playoff draw, the face of London 2012 spent Wednesday wagging his finger. "Depressing. Who wants to sit through something like that?" LOCOG chief Sebastian Coe moaned. "It is unacceptable."
    It's an unseemly thing for him to say.
    Coe long ago retired from athletics, and instead switched over to a job in sales. It's no longer within his competence to judge what is or isn't ethically acceptable behaviour for people who still need to win in order to pay their rent.
    Hours later, the discipline's governing body cravenly capitulated to public opinion (most of that public presumably having never watched a game of badminton before in their lives).
    Four teams, including the defending world champions, were tossed from the badminton competition for the sin of playing the long game instead of the short one.
    What's not at issue here is that games were thrown. The four pairs -- two from South Korea, one each from China and Indonesia -- embarked on an amusing journey into true amateurism Tuesday. Over and over, they smashed the shuttlecock into the net. They put easy shots wide. No rally lasted more than four returns.
    How would you look competing in the Olympics? Now you know.
    All four pairs were trying to ease their draw going into the knockout round, where lesser teams play each other before they meet the powerhouses. The Chinese, who have used this strategy for years on the world badminton stage, wanted to ensure their entrants could not meet before the gold medal match.
    They're out now. Four inferior teams, including a Canadian pair, were pushed forward as replacements.
    That's the silver lining to this thing -- playing another surprise entrant, Australia, Canadians Alex Bruce and Michele Li advanced to Thursday's semis. They're one win from a medal. You're happy for them, but just because it broke right for us doesn't make it fair.
    If anyone's to blame, it is organizers who decided to make this competition a round robin instead of a straight elimination. You want maximum effort? You make every match count. Otherwise, you introduce gamesmanship into the mix.
    The ticket-buying public was upset. Vocally so inside the venue, chanting "Off! Off! Off!" Three hundred years ago, their ancestors meant "heads" when they said that.
    That seems to be the real problem here. The gawkers didn't reach their fun quota on Tuesday night. If so, the ticket-buying public can go suck rocks.
    The only people who matter at the Olympics are the ones standing inside the lines of play. They're the ones doing what they are not paid to do -- they are competing. At this level, strategic losing is part of that.
    It happens in most sports, though more subtly. If they're going to start booting every athlete who takes it easy in a heat or fields an understrength squad in a meaningless game, the next job for the soldiers wandering around here is switching out fatigues for spandex and beginning to compete.
    If you want to watch people playing for the sheer joy of doing so, I'm sure there's a badminton club somewhere within driving distance of wherever you live. Otherwise, leave what's acceptable behaviour inside the game to those for whom it actually matters.
    What Coe and all the rest of the frothers are getting confused about is the difference between a spectacle and a show.
    The Olympics are entertaining. They are not entertainment.
    Pro athletes owe you their best every night. That's what they're getting paid to do. Amateurs owe nothing to the crowd. This isn't a circus. They're not getting a cut of the gate.
    Amateurs are here to represent their country and win medals. The national federations that pay their subsistence wage are their bosses. They don't care how good you look. They don't care how hard you tried. They care how much you win. Public sports funding isn't charity. It's an extension of a nation's foreign policy objectives. One of those is that you are hale enough to occasionally kick the asses of your friends and enemies.
    Putting aside all the lip service paid to respecting the Olympic spirit (tell that to the guys working at the doping labs), the highest goal here is to win within the boundaries of the rules.
    There's no rule in any sport that says you must be good. Otherwise, none of us would play anything. They play these Games to win.
    What is truly depressing is that, while undetected drug cheats will continue on here, a group of competitors playing by the well-established rules of their small world have been robbed of glory by people who didn't know who they were before Tuesday, and will forget who they are in a few days' time.
    But, for those eight competitors, the unfairness of being robbed by a riled-up, half-interested mob will last forever.

  4. #293
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xXazn_romeoXx View Post
    I'll bump the article. It's quite a good read.

    http://www.mississauga.com/iphone/sp...or-the-birdies
    Dude, that's the dumbass from the TorStar lol. People are ripping him up on their comments page. This link you posted seems edited and copied from a few sources. And FYI it is entertainment if it's entertaining.

    I read fictional books for entertainment... thus fiction reading (the act) is an entertaining activity. I read a text book to learn, it's boring sometimes to memorize terms and facts... thus it's not an entertaining activity, it's an learning activity.

    You watch NBA basketball to see who will win between the Spurs and Heat with buddies on Friday night at the bar, the act of watching/drinking/chatting/eating (spending leisure time) is entertaining you.. thus it is entertainment.

    BTW, I was court side and not a half ass spectator. As were all the other people there were very interested in the quality of play and how the players represented themselves and their nations.
    Last edited by gamelessx25; 08-02-2012 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Adding more text

  5. #294
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oslo
    Posts
    15
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gamelessx25 View Post
    Umm, I don't know where you're from Sinug, no offence directed at you, but I play badminton for entertainment. I watch top players play and compete at the elite level for entertainment. They are beyond my abilities. In essence, heroes of the sport whom I look up to and emulate some shots to become better at the sport and thus enjoy more entertainment in the future.

    Last I check... Ironman, Superman, Spiderman, Batman, Avengers, (Aquaman who sucks btw), Green Lantern... list goes on, are all fictitious heroes which millions upon millions of kids, nerds, geeks, spend their money on for ENTERTAINMENT. Also, it's a business, would you like it if your home city spent 30billions dollars of your tax money to host an non televised/non profit taking world tournament to qualify in your words the true Sport? My guess of your answer is NO.
    what i mean with entertainment is playing to please the viewers, like if we watch movie/comedy/teathrical where the player is paid to play purely to entertain the viewer. in contrary, the professional sport player is playing not to please the viewer at their first priority. the viewer is willingly watch them playing instead (with some cost of paying ticket of course, but that ticket fee was not asked by the player. they will still play even no body watch them as they have different objective). so it is different motivation between entertainment actor and sport-player.

    i also play badminton regularly for entertaining myself (releasing stress). but this is different from playing badminton to entertain somebody else.

  6. #295
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oslo
    Posts
    15
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yan.v View Post
    I realize I sound very rude in this post. My apologies.

    I got frustrated of reading all those "crap QF" posts :\

    no problem, i can understand :-) what i mean was just that the quality of the new SF match (and probably F match) are not as good as what expected before. They still have quality but just less than the top-pairs. So I don't mean to insult at all :-)

  7. #296
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Like it or not, the athletes are on the WORLD STAGE to showcase themselves to citizens of the world, there's certain guidelines and behaviour that's expected of them. What went on Tuesday was beyond those guidelines all athletes swore to obey during the opening ceremonies. You can argue it was the organizer's fault for setting up RR that's to be exploited.

    But in China, there's an idiom. "You cannot force a cow's head down to drink water if it doesn't want to drink." Fact is, they chose to exploit the system for more favorable medal chances and got caught.

    From the perspective of "winning" the gold and "owning" the podium, that's the "right" "strategy/tactics" to use. Sun Tzu would applaud them for using their wits.

    From the perspective of the oath they swore to participate at this Olympic Stage of competition. They took the line and wrap it around themselves to suite their own needs while ignoring official warnings from the BWF.

    They got their punishment the next day. Was it just? was it fair? Debate all you want, it is what it is.

    The Chinese camp is throwing their pair under the bus. LYB's "apology" (perhaps lost in translation) wasn't much of an apology the way it was worded. All he said was He apologizes to the fans and the nation for what went on. He never directly took responsibility for the whole mess or to protect his WD #1 pair. In his eyes, there's young players to replace them anyways.

    my 2 cp.
    Last edited by gamelessx25; 08-02-2012 at 09:31 PM. Reason: word correction : for to force

  8. #297
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    893
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yan.v View Post
    I see what you mean. But to me, real effort comes from trying to win and play your best. Trying to lose just so you get an easier way to the medal is just wrong. Makes your medal that much less awesome.
    I could be wrong here, but I suspect they're not trying to get an easier way to the medal. After that match, won't the CHN team play another CHN team. This would mean one of the two teams would be eliminated. For CHN, as for any countries, wouldn't the objective be, from "bigger picture" standpoint, to get as many medals, and as grand a medal as possible.

  9. #298
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    893
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Staiger1 View Post
    The media is definitely making a big fuzz about out of this , it happens in other sport as well when you have group stage (playing at different time) . If it was a lesser badminton nation involve , it would not be a big issue
    But seriously, which other countries would have such a luxury to use this strategy?

  10. #299
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Uh, that's not an "idiom".

  11. #300
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    893
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    sorry, all I could think about after that was Bruce Lee playing badminton
    I haven't found one video on this yet. But I found him playing ping pong with his nunchucks:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SncapPrTusA

    I bet with him playing badminton, with nunchucks or not, must have been equally entertaining.

  12. #301
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Korea
    Posts
    238
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    GIVEN: The players/coaches/BWF are at fault.

    QUESTION: In case YY/WYL did not throw the match and eventually met ZYL/TQ, thus avoiding the CHN-CHN finals; how would people react? I bet people would say they were stupid(honorable but stupid!) for not losing to KOR in the QF.

    Sadly, it's a lose-lose situation for them...

    the tourney format sucks... BIGTIME! lol...

  13. #302
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    18
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    A pyramid of faults with the BWF at the bottom, coaches in the middle and players at top.

  14. #303
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    New York, US
    Posts
    10,283
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by raymond View Post
    But seriously, which other countries would have such a luxury to use this strategy?
    KOR was trying to do the same thing. That's why 2 pairs are both DQed. Their goal might not be as a sweep of gold and silver as like CHN. Their goal is to last as long as possible, and hope at least get to a medal match.

  15. #304
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    singapore
    Posts
    3,321
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xXazn_romeoXx View Post
    Here's the article =] have a readSource: http://www.mississauga.com/iphone/sp...or-the-birdiesDisqualifications simply for the birdies August 2, 2012 00:08:00 LONDON, ENGLAND -- Reflecting on the decision of four badminton teams to throw their games here in order to get a better playoff draw, the face of London 2012 spent Wednesday wagging his finger. "Depressing. Who wants to sit through something like that?" LOCOG chief Sebastian Coe moaned. "It is unacceptable." It's an unseemly thing for him to say. Coe long ago retired from athletics, and instead switched over to a job in sales. It's no longer within his competence to judge what is or isn't ethically acceptable behaviour for people who still need to win in order to pay their rent. Hours later, the discipline's governing body cravenly capitulated to public opinion (most of that public presumably having never watched a game of badminton before in their lives). Four teams, including the defending world champions, were tossed from the badminton competition for the sin of playing the long game instead of the short one. What's not at issue here is that games were thrown. The four pairs -- two from South Korea, one each from China and Indonesia -- embarked on an amusing journey into true amateurism Tuesday. Over and over, they smashed the shuttlecock into the net. They put easy shots wide. No rally lasted more than four returns. How would you look competing in the Olympics? Now you know. All four pairs were trying to ease their draw going into the knockout round, where lesser teams play each other before they meet the powerhouses. The Chinese, who have used this strategy for years on the world badminton stage, wanted to ensure their entrants could not meet before the gold medal match. They're out now. Four inferior teams, including a Canadian pair, were pushed forward as replacements. That's the silver lining to this thing -- playing another surprise entrant, Australia, Canadians Alex Bruce and Michele Li advanced to Thursday's semis. They're one win from a medal. You're happy for them, but just because it broke right for us doesn't make it fair. If anyone's to blame, it is organizers who decided to make this competition a round robin instead of a straight elimination. You want maximum effort? You make every match count. Otherwise, you introduce gamesmanship into the mix. The ticket-buying public was upset. Vocally so inside the venue, chanting "Off! Off! Off!" Three hundred years ago, their ancestors meant "heads" when they said that. That seems to be the real problem here. The gawkers didn't reach their fun quota on Tuesday night. If so, the ticket-buying public can go suck rocks. The only people who matter at the Olympics are the ones standing inside the lines of play. They're the ones doing what they are not paid to do -- they are competing. At this level, strategic losing is part of that. It happens in most sports, though more subtly. If they're going to start booting every athlete who takes it easy in a heat or fields an understrength squad in a meaningless game, the next job for the soldiers wandering around here is switching out fatigues for spandex and beginning to compete. If you want to watch people playing for the sheer joy of doing so, I'm sure there's a badminton club somewhere within driving distance of wherever you live. Otherwise, leave what's acceptable behaviour inside the game to those for whom it actually matters. What Coe and all the rest of the frothers are getting confused about is the difference between a spectacle and a show. The Olympics are entertaining. They are not entertainment. Pro athletes owe you their best every night. That's what they're getting paid to do. Amateurs owe nothing to the crowd. This isn't a circus. They're not getting a cut of the gate. Amateurs are here to represent their country and win medals. The national federations that pay their subsistence wage are their bosses. They don't care how good you look. They don't care how hard you tried. They care how much you win. Public sports funding isn't charity. It's an extension of a nation's foreign policy objectives. One of those is that you are hale enough to occasionally kick the asses of your friends and enemies. Putting aside all the lip service paid to respecting the Olympic spirit (tell that to the guys working at the doping labs), the highest goal here is to win within the boundaries of the rules. There's no rule in any sport that says you must be good. Otherwise, none of us would play anything. They play these Games to win. What is truly depressing is that, while undetected drug cheats will continue on here, a group of competitors playing by the well-established rules of their small world have been robbed of glory by people who didn't know who they were before Tuesday, and will forget who they are in a few days' time. But, for those eight competitors, the unfairness of being robbed by a riled-up, half-interested mob will last forever.
    Unfairness of being robbed? Go ask the non-CHN players who have been robbed many times by CHN s walkovers and fake play. Except this time the fake play was at the lowest level as to insult the intelligence of the paying fans that the usual polite Brits were riled to the exceptional stage of jeering. That is no mob. Those are intelligent fans that refuse to accept the visual badminton rubbish being forced upon them. Are the fans important? Of course. Without fans, no sport can be professional enough to last.

  16. #305
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    New York, US
    Posts
    10,283
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    Unfairness of being robbed? Go ask the non-CHN players who have been robbed many times by CHN s walkovers and fake play.
    Well, then go to ask WSX, XXZ, xXF, CY, etc (as well as many other players from MAS, INA, DEN, KOR). They will tell you they got robbed by those non-CHN players to begin with, even before every single OG, since 1992.

  17. #306
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    1,110
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In terms of entertainment, I actually skipped watching the WD China vs Korea game initially because I actually expected it to be played with low effort given their positions in the round robin. I then went back to watch it after hearing about the controversy, and I found it extremely entertaining, not so much for quality of the match but for how brazenly they were both throwing the game. Obviously, the situation is a bit different if you paid money to watch the competition, though that's always a risk when getting tickets for the last few games before the playoffs.

Page 18 of 23 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •