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View Poll Results: who's to be blamed for the match throwing?

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  • The players are at fault for throw matches

    38 17.67%
  • BWF is to blame for implementing group structure

    77 35.81%
  • no one / other are to be blamed.

    7 3.26%
  • both players and BWF are to be blamed

    93 43.26%
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  1. #18
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    group system is the main cause, the coaches are to blame because they're telling their players to lose and ignore the olympic spirit (sportsmanship in general) and the players are to blame because they didn't protest against the decision of their coaches 8they're less guilty though)...so for me it's everyone.

  2. #19
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    the pitfalls of the grouping/advancing were obvious at the begining.

    when IBF found out, they should have modified it by adding something like:

    at the first the knockout stage, when group winner playing another group's runner up, the winner should have a 1:0 lead in sets/games by default; which means the runner up has to win 2 straight sets to win, otherwise lose.

    That way, players have something to fight for.

    Neither BWF, nor Olympics organizations, have the authority to order the players how to play the matches to correct their (BWF's) own pitfalls.

    BWF/Olympics should not cancel the matches for committing bigger crime to cover their mistakes.

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigandy View Post
    BWF should have known but what kind of a sport has to take into account that cheating will occur among players. It should not have to be a consideration when structuring tournaments.
    who cheated?

  4. #21
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    kwun, can we add the following the poll options please :

    * The Danes for winning
    * The Coach or Coaches
    * BWF for condoning years and years of throwing games
    * President of IOC Jacques Rogge for being there to witness the farce
    Last edited by pcll99; 08-01-2012 at 12:20 PM.

  5. #22
    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tranqq View Post
    who cheated?
    Indonesia, korea and china all found guilty of breaking rules. They officially got found guilty of breaking rules in Sections 4.5 and 4.16, Bwf the official regulatory body's words not mine. Now to put it very simply for you - when you break the rules you can be classed as a cheat. This is official not matter of my opinion.

  6. #23
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    Personally I feel sorry for the players who have been disqualified, they would have surely been instructed by their coaches to throw the match.

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vomit View Post
    Personally I feel sorry for the players who have been disqualified, they would have surely been instructed by their coaches to throw the match.
    Exactly. Some of you guys are blaming the players entirely and I'd have to disagree. I'm pretty sure that those pairs were mandated by their coaching staff to lose.

    What if you choose not to lose? Then you lose favour in your national association and get booted out eventually. And the sad part is, BWF grants more power to the national associations than the individual players themselves to determine who plays in the important tournaments.

    For example, look at the Malaysian men's doubles team in the 2011 BWF World Championships. Zakry/Hoon were only the 4th ranked men's pair but they were chosen over 2 other higher ranked Malaysian pairs just because those players are independent players. I can also name countless players in China who got kicked out of the national squad because they played in the best interest of themselves rather than their country.

    So players HAVE to cheat if they want to be included in the top tournaments. Otherwise, they don't get to play at all. And this all comes back to BWF and their terrible structure.

    BWF's idea to implement round robin was also incredibly incredibly stupid.

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigandy View Post
    Indonesia, korea and china all found guilty of breaking rules. They officially got found guilty of breaking rules in Sections 4.5 and 4.16, Bwf the official regulatory body's words not mine. Now to put it very simply for you - when you break the rules you can be classed as a cheat. This is official not matter of my opinion.
    In that same section there is a section on unsportsmanlike conduct.. according to you then..if someone is caught being unsportsmanlike it's called cheating. Or if someone doesn't show up for a match... that would also be cheating. Clearly there are rules in the book that are there to uphold the integrity of the sport (as there should be) but that doesn't automatically mean cheating in the sense that we know it. These players definitely did wrong in terms of sportsmanship and respectable sporting conduct. But do you really consider that cheating? I think the players and coaches did irreversible damage to their personal characters and to the sport of badminton..but I think disqualifying them is a mistake. A hefty fine would have been much better. I think it's clear this isn't entirely their fault..it's the tournament organizers for using this format. It's like putting a kid next to an open cookie jar. Telling him not to have any but leaving it there to be tempted by..it's is a form of entrapment. This is the olympics... emotions are high and judgements aren't always going to be clear and concise. Shame on them for inviting this to happen and punishing them for it in the worst possible way.

  9. #26
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    I should also point out that officially it's just a code of conduct.. not a rule book.

  10. #27
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    People play by the rules. You don't blame the players when the rules are stupid.

  11. #28
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    Personally I think players have right to reserve their energy for the games which is more important. They also likely to throw the game because they want to reserve energy for the next games which will decide whether they are in the semifinal. I think BWF make stupid decision to disqualify them. That decision hurt everybody including the sport, BWF itself, audience who are deprived of the best WDs in the final apart from the players which were involved. I don't think it hurt too much about the chance for the chinese team to grab the gold.

    You can see often in soccer in the west, they clear the bench for less meaningful game to rest their important players. We as audience couldn't argue that they didn't play in full strength and therefore disqualified them.













    Quote Originally Posted by tranqq View Post
    In that same section there is a section on unsportsmanlike conduct.. according to you then..if someone is caught being unsportsmanlike it's called cheating. Or if someone doesn't show up for a match... that would also be cheating. Clearly there are rules in the book that are there to uphold the integrity of the sport (as there should be) but that doesn't automatically mean cheating in the sense that we know it. These players definitely did wrong in terms of sportsmanship and respectable sporting conduct. But do you really consider that cheating? I think the players and coaches did irreversible damage to their personal characters and to the sport of badminton..but I think disqualifying them is a mistake. A hefty fine would have been much better. I think it's clear this isn't entirely their fault..it's the tournament organizers for using this format. It's like putting a kid next to an open cookie jar. Telling him not to have any but leaving it there to be tempted by..it's is a form of entrapment. This is the olympics... emotions are high and judgements aren't always going to be clear and concise. Shame on them for inviting this to happen and punishing them for it in the worst possible way.

  12. #29
    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tranqq View Post
    In that same section there is a section on unsportsmanlike conduct.. according to you then..if someone is caught being unsportsmanlike it's called cheating. Or if someone doesn't show up for a match... that would also be cheating. Clearly there are rules in the book that are there to uphold the integrity of the sport (as there should be) but that doesn't automatically mean cheating in the sense that we know it. These players definitely did wrong in terms of sportsmanship and respectable sporting conduct. But do you really consider that cheating? I think the players and coaches did irreversible damage to their personal characters and to the sport of badminton..but I think disqualifying them is a mistake. A hefty fine would have been much better. I think it's clear this isn't entirely their fault..it's the tournament organizers for using this format. It's like putting a kid next to an open cookie jar. Telling him not to have any but leaving it there to be tempted by..it's is a form of entrapment. This is the olympics... emotions are high and judgements aren't always going to be clear and concise. Shame on them for inviting this to happen and punishing them for it in the worst possible way.
    It is cheating by definition(check a dictionary -to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice) sorry if you find that word offensive but i am only using the most appropriate word for what has happened. Now cheating is an English word and I promise you this is one of/it's definition so i am not sure who the "we" you talk of with regards to the sense of the word cheating but their wrong.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigandy View Post
    It is cheating by definition(check a dictionary -to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice) sorry if you find that word offensive but i am only using the most appropriate word for what has happened. Now cheating is an English word and I promise you this is one of/it's definition so i am not sure who the "we" you talk of with regards to the sense of the word cheating but their wrong.
    you're taking the word of of context. If a player while in a match decides to lose 4 points in a row in order to catch their breath because they feel like they have a better chance of winning if they do so. Would you call that cheating? They are most certainly being deceitful and are trying to influence their opponent to think they have mentally given up and the match will be easy. It's not that black and white. Just because you can use an english dictionary doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.

  14. #31
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    I don't know why everyone is appalled by this behavior of these "Professional" badminton players and Pro/National organizations.

    How often have we witnessed sleeper finals where it's one national player vs another from the same national team and tanking it, despite the public paying top dollar to watch a FINAL.  Unfortunately governing bodies have also lost sight of what is considered competition and allowed this to continue. Walk off finals are all too common place in badminton.

    Come up with a different format and these super teams will find another way to "cheat" the system.  However atleast limit the carnage. What we just witnessed in this decision by the IOC is a condemnation of what has been accepted practice.

    For those players not associated with super teams and struggling financially and physically to play in tournaments, it is return to sensibility and fair play. This decision will put badminton under the microscope and on notice. If nothing is done, badminton will be relegated to a backyard sport with its golden years far removed.

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    No doubt, BWF is the one to blame as its lack of action in the past to stop bad behaviors such as game fixing has now reached the tiping point. Hard to believe the players did that in such an open manner at Olympics!! But my take is they did that because they were under the impression it was an ok behavior since BWF had not done anything in the past to stop them. I also feel that the coaches need to take responsibilites as well. Find out how many times in the forum this subject was discussed in the past. Badminton lovers like us want the sports to be known for fair competition and honesty.

  16. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibe_K View Post
    No doubt, BWF is the one to blame as its lack of action in the past to stop bad behaviors such as game fixing has now reached the tiping point. Hard to believe the players did that in such an open manner at Olympics!! But my take is they did that because they were under the impression it was an ok behavior since BWF had not done anything in the past to stop them. I also feel that the coaches need to take responsibilites as well. Find out how many times in the forum this subject was discussed in the past. Badminton lovers like us want the sports to be known for fair competition and honesty.
    Each venture gets bolder seeing there is no penalty imposed from fixing in SS, then WC, then OLY and BWF cannot do anything about it. This time, the paying fans cry foul and boo, Rogge in attendance, the media picks it up, IOC has to do something. I was driving to a meeting and over the radio, for the first time, badminton made the news and on this DQ fiasco. IOC really has no choice but to show who is boss with the world watching, doing nothing is a kiss of death, do something with the blessing of world's majority (except the Gang of 6 and counting), and to get BWF to deliver the punishment to the 3 nations (so it does not appear to be targeting CHN) is a win-win decision for IOC.
    CHN communist party last thing she wants is bad publicity and to lose face internationally, to be called 'cheater' and 'fixer' in a sport dominated by her, I wonder how this will unfold. Whose head will roll?
    LLW, with her past ugly encounter with LYB, dealt with this card, what would she do? This is the moment ...

  17. #34
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    Chibe_k, you are so right on! This behavior is so systemic, that the players don't really know right from wrong, or are just going along for the 'ride'. BWF may be the weak link, but it kowtows to these National/Pro/Superteams which exert considerable influence on the governing body. Team China, cough, cough Li Ning will want things their way, because for them badminton is a business and selling rackets, clothing, etc to us is important.
    Now more than ever, Li Ning is interested in controlling the sport as their stock is dropping like crazy. Plus they have to duke it out with team Yonex and team Victor.

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