who's to blame for the match throwing?

**pwimsey** · 08-01-2012, 04:53 PM

facts: 1. players did bring badminton into disrepute 2. tactical play incentivised by round-robin structure. 3. round-robin format rarely used in badminton tournament play.  4. known issues with round robin format in uber/thomas cups 5. tactical play often used when player takes a respite when trailing in 2nd game after winning 1st, evidenced by error-strewn play and resulting in crowd booing. 6. throwing games just takes this to the next level. 7. difficulty in telling when game is thrown, e.g. china-china matches or japan-taiwan wd which was also suspicious, but not conclusive. reaction to disqualification: 1. can be considered unfair to players when format implicitly allowed throwing games. players have never experienced round-robin format for individual events 2. unfair to WD pairs that qualified on merit, but had to fight in quarter-finals instead of progressing directly to semi-finals. i guess BWF had to arrange some matches for people that had tickets for tonight's quarter-finals. 3. taiwan and denmark WD unlucky to not play for bronze, as they are stronger than Russia/Canada that will be likely playing for bronze, if not hastily patched up draw. 4. unfair to audience as they now get russia-rsa and canada-aus WD quarter-finals, which i doubt anybody would pay to watch. (Sidenote: anyone want WD bronze match ticket?)  alternatives to disqualification: 1. fine 4 pairs and associations heavily, ie. $1 million. this will also point out that responsibility is also shared by association, not just players 2. as it is, LYB and the korean coaches can escape sanction by denying responsibility. 3. use fines to develop badminton in smaller nations. 4. punishing associations and players will more directly change badminton culture. I remember conversation with chinese players at worlds: they were incentivised by monetary reward for winning, same for coaches. So heavy monetary fines will influence their incentives. possible solutions for the future: 1. double elimination to allow smaller nations more matches, but still strong incentive for winning. 2. randomised or better performance based draws if round-robin, like archery, fencing. performance metric can be how quickly you crush opponents. this will minimize time-wasting among other things and make players give 100%. 3. apply heavy punitive fines for match throwing and unsporting behaviour.  PS. Many people blame china for match-fixing, and they are the leading offender. However, other countries also do it. The difference is that China are so strong that they have more opportunity to fix matches and take advantage of the rules. After seeing recent events, I think others would have done the same given the opportunities. PPS. Anyone want WD bronze match ticket? Having seen Russia and Canada WD, I am not convinced they are stronger than club MD, which is pretty sad.

**groovyshot** · 08-01-2012, 04:58 PM

This is certainly an interesting scenario for the badminton community. Scandalous really.
BWF's modus operandi is taken by the badminton community as business as usual, however for the non-badminton community this is aberration of fair play.

It is interesting as a community that we've becoming conditioned to ignore fair play. Given that the IOC has exposed these practises, how is BWF going to tweak the system? This may be a good thing. At least badminton has made the news, rather than a footnote on the back pages of someone's blog.

**Ton-Min-Bad** · 08-01-2012, 05:04 PM

I'd like to see personal consequences within the BWF. They did a bad job by installing this group system and need to take responsibility. Which means some of them have to give up on their jobs.

**thunder.tw** · 08-01-2012, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Ton-Min-Bad

I'd like to see personal consequences within the BWF. They did a bad job by installing this group system and need to take responsibility. Which means some of them have to give up on their jobs.

Not me. I'd like to see the head of the organisation turfed after all he is the one ultimately responsible for the BWF. Other than that I don't see how a witch hunt within the organisation would be all that constructive. Likely they'd just offer up some poor scapegoat and then tell themselves and the community they've resolved the matter and continue on under the same sold system.

**fanyy** · 08-01-2012, 06:19 PM

If the players get punished, then the BWF deserves the same. Not fair if only one side gets the blame.

**Loafers** · 08-01-2012, 06:21 PM

100% on the players.

From what I heard, they were warned, but still continued. If this is true, they deserve to be disqualified.

If you don't like the group stage, don't participate next time.

Totally disrespectful for the fans and people who paid good money to watch "professional" players play.

***cobalt*** · 08-01-2012, 06:25 PM

Just found this...

**OneToughBirdie** · 08-01-2012, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Loafers

100% on the players.

From what I heard, they were warned, but still continued. If this is true, they deserve to be disqualified.

If you don't like the group stage, don't participate next time.

Totally disrespectful for the fans and people who paid good money to watch "professional" players play.

I have been saying this for years...that for those nuts/idiots who defend match fixing, yet never get off their butt to fly overseas to pay to see a match and pay accomodation, only to punch the keyboard sitting drinking 2 beers butt naked scratching their balls, now go tell that to the real fans who pay big buck that it is okay to see a match fixed, especially at OLY with UK hotels all time high...good for the spectators to boo and cry bloody foul, and the noise heard around the world. These clowns are real arrogant to think they can pull this stunt in OLY with all eyes including international medias watching and what a timing for Dr Rogge to be in the stadium...it is in the stars and it is meant to be....karma.

**gjoo888** · 08-01-2012, 06:36 PM

The players and coaches are not blameless, but the BWF put a system in place that rewarded losing. What did they expect to happen?

**Staiger1** · 08-01-2012, 06:41 PM

Well done.......Gail , well spoken

To blame : Players , BWF----GROUP Stages..........

I hope badminton is not going to loose out ,,,,,,,and finger-cross it is in the next Olympic as well , since badminton is one of the best sport in the world .

In some way , this have a very negative impact for the sport and left a sour taste surrounding the sport
and no-one is a winner here....

and hopefully this will be forgotten in a while cause this is too damaging to the sport and its reputation .....

it takes so long to build the sport up , and only take a few to hurt the sport

**charedblack** · 08-01-2012, 06:42 PM

It is NOT the players or the BWF fault!

It is the coaches fault and their fault only! Li Yongbo is the all mighty dictator that has to be banned from ever setting foot in a stadium ever again!

**charedblack** · 08-01-2012, 06:48 PM

It is NOT the players or the BWF fault, it is the coaches fault their fault only!

I struggle to understand anyone who says its the players fault! Obviously they lack the knowledge of the sport to understand how it works! We all know that they just do as they are told by their coaches! And if they dont do as they are told, they are just replaced by the next in line! In countries like China their 10th best player is still a world top 20 player! So you do as Li Yongbo tells you! Thus he is the almighty dictator at fault!

The BWF put in place a system that is fail for emerging countries to compete on the biggest stage! The key word there is 'compete'! The Olympics is about having a go and that seems to be lost on many of the eastern cultures who fail to understand the spirit of the games!

Dont blame the system, blame the coaches!

**craigandy** · 08-01-2012, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by gjoo888

The players and coaches are not blameless, but the BWF put a system in place that rewarded losing. What did they expect to happen?

Maybe BWF set it up like this to give the associations one last chance to show integrity and respect to the sport and in turn knowing if they didn't it would force themselves to grow a set of balls and start dealing with all this s**t.

**fanyy** · 08-01-2012, 07:01 PM

Thanks to BWF for building this faulty meritless foundation.
Never makes sense in any sport to have the top two seeds play each other so soon in the competition.

**suetyan** · 08-01-2012, 07:06 PM

should blame BWF at first. If the new system was not implemented, all these will not happen. In the end of the OG, if Tian/Zhao did not win, Li Yong Bo should blame himself.

**Heong** · 08-01-2012, 07:07 PM

I just don't understand why the officials are over-reacting

It's their very own system they solely created... this stupid group system and shouldn't ever happen again, I'm up for the elimination routine