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  1. #69
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    Keep it Cordial guys. This thread is started for discussion on techniques, tactics and strategies of both LD and LCW and what are the chasers, i.e. Chen Long, Du Peng You , Kenichi tago can do to bridge the gap.

    Please dont sidetrack.

    On another note, I thought LCW's career was gone after the injury, but the way he put away CL in the semis shows that the chasers have still got a lot to do.

    LCW's drawback from now is his age, BUT if he time his tournaments and have a longer break in between tournaments, the chasers would find it hard to reach him. His advantage is that he can shift his game according to opponents he meets. This time he uses very sharp slicing smash and with accuracy to bring the shuttle down fast and mixes hard and weak smashes making CL running all over the court.

    Against LD it was almost the same thing, but LD was not easily made to run all over court and at one point LD was doing a Usain Bolt to the back of the court hit a drive to save the rally.

    Only these two LD and LCW can be out of position run to the back at an acute angle and retrieve a shuttle with interest.

    LD is capable of altering his game but at the moment I dont think he needs to do it it is awesome enough for keep LCW at arms length the chaser a mile away.

    LCW has altered his game and is playing with a different template from the one before the injury and it would take the chasers a few more months to find a hole in it.

  2. #70
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    Quiz question.What are the ages of the oldest and youngest Men s Singles Olympic champion?

  3. #71
    Regular Member AlanY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    Quiz question.What are the ages of the oldest and youngest Men s Singles Olympic champion?
    as a guess without going to the search button.

    TH is 31 and he won it 8 years ago he must be the youngest.
    The oldest must be the Danish guy in 1996 that his name escaped me. Danish players always old.

  4. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanY View Post
    as a guess without going to the search button.

    TH is 31 and he won it 8 years ago he must be the youngest.
    The oldest must be the Danish guy in 1996 that his name escaped me. Danish players always old.
    The Danish player is Poul-Erik Hoyer Larsen who won it at Atlanta 1996 at age 31 (born Sep 20,1965).

  5. #73
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    Great MS finals!

    Some thoughts and observations....

    LCW played a totally different game this time round, than his usual hesitant, deferential style when he normally comes up against LD. Game 1 was a revelation: he took the bird early, was decisive, and showed intent to move LD round the court, wrong-footed him on many occasions and had one of the most polished defenders scrambling like crazy and looking very, very vulnerable. LCW deservingly won game 1 easily.

    Game 2. IMO LCW lost it because he could not for some reason known only to himself, adjust to the drift. His focus and intent was so complete, he lost because he did not make allowances. Consequently he had to play a more attacking style in Game 2 as well, and use up valuable energy.Even GC commented that the drift had changed from what it was on previous days. LD adjusted. LCW adjusted but only too late, in Game 3, and even then overshot on the fatal point.

    Is LD's peripheral awareness better than LCW's? I'd say, yes. His constant awareness of all the impinging factors allow him to control any match he plays against any opponent, better than the other guy. OTOH, LCW's peripheral awareness in stressful conditions is a little suspect; notice how he needs to look down to calibrate his position and judge the fall path of the bird - and yet he misjudged on at least 3 occasions!

    So then the question begs asking: why did LD, on winning the toss, choose to play on the side with the drift? I think he fully anticipated the match to go to the decider, and if he could keep close with LCW until the interval, he could edge out the match if LCW misjudged the drift again, on a couple of points.

    I guess he was right. For most of the match, LCW was the better player in all respects. But LD was the better strategist. And he had luck on his side. Again.

  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    I guess he was right. For most of the match, LCW was the better player in all respects. But LD was the better strategist. And he had luck on his side. Again.
    but hope it's not all because luck.

  7. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    And he had luck on his side. Again.
    LCW had more luck at the Olympic final. In the middle of the third set, LD hit a shuttle that landed on the back line but was wrongly called out. Thus, LCW was gifted a point by the linesman. The score would have been 21-18 and not 21-19 if the right call had been made.

    Ironically, even though LCW was more lucky in this Olympic final, he still could not secure the win.

  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by galaxyduo View Post
    Haha pjswfit. You have a funny way of thinking! There is no point debating with you - instead, I will enjoy reading your comments
    It s good you enjoy my comments even when they re not what you expect. But mine will differ from yours because I watched those tournaments courtside so I could observe what s not on TV whilst you see what the TV editors decide for you. And the H2H of 21 to 9 for LD to LCW is a superficial fact. That s what TV commentators are only capable of. There are many ways to analyse numbers. When you go deeper, the picture is revealing. Eg. Limsy unearthed the fact that 8 out of LD s 21 wins were outside China ( meaning most of LD s advantage over LCW is because of CHN crowd) whereas 7 out of LCW s 9 wins were outside Malaysia ( meaning dominant MAS crowd is not key to LCW s success.) And if you were to analyse each tournament win further, the picture will emerge that LD s wins over LCW were with teammate assists except one. And if you were to break down each match, you will find some pattern which CHN coaches know ( but of course Rashid wouldn t have a clue because he s not capable of deep thought.) That s why we have different views. You re not wrong because you see what s on the surface, I m not wrong because I do deep data research. Those analysis indicate LCW is superior to LD as a player but LD wins because his coaches do very detailed homework and help him strategise all the way, especially the finish. Whereas LCW s coaches don t even know the importance of closing out a match, so LCW has to figure out the finishing during play. But if LCW has MFrost for major tournament coach, it will be scary for CHN. But that won t happen because BAM would rather lose than let MF have the opportunity to claim credit for LCW s victory. So, enjoy and be happy.

  9. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    And if you were to analyse each tournament win further, the picture will emerge that LD s wins over LCW were with teammate assists except one.
    except one? just one? which one is that lucky one? because i think there are already at least 3, AG 2010, WC 2011, and OG 2012. but i may wrong of course.

  10. #78
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnymak View Post
    Keep it Cordial guys. This thread is started for discussion on techniques, tactics and strategies of both LD and LCW and what are the chasers, i.e. Chen Long, Du Peng You , Kenichi tago can do to bridge the gap.

    ----sinp----
    Errrrr, with due respect, nothing.

    The best is they can pray for these 2 to get old and creaky quickly enough, and get out of their way.

    Each of the other "pretenders to the throne" have just too many flaws. Physical, mental, psychological, technical, blah blah. It boils down to enough of the right attributes coming together in one package for a long enough stretch of time to allow one person to make an impact on the game. I can't see any candidate.

    CL is not the sharpest knife in the drawer and is likely to go the BCL way sooner than later; KT is a bloody goofball who needs a swift kick up his backside (I'm so hurt by his attitude and refusal to get out of his comfort zone) and frankly, (just my opinion) DPY, WZM et al just don't have what it takes. SS is entering the final lap of his career, ditto Sony. CJ sadly, is not ever going to be the force now that he once promised.

    Viktor and a couple of other Danish youngsters have a good chance of making an impression, but it's early days yet, consistency is still to make it's presence felt... Ditto some of the exciting INA and MAS players, especially Dino and Rhustavito. But half the battle could be getting these kids' thumbs away from their iPhones, in a manner of speaking!

    With his newfound confidence post-OG and more complete style of playing (he doesn't expend half as much energy on taking out other players apart from LD and maybe on a good day, CL) LCW can actually be a frontrunner again for Rio, if as you pointed out, he puts his mind to pacing himself over the next 4 years (and those idiots at BAM see the light). Probably LD as well.

    ...4 more years! I may not be around....

  11. #79
    Regular Member gundamzaku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactim View Post
    The notion that crowd support is the main driving force behind both players takes away too much credit away from LCW and LD. Give the players some more respect than that. They have been playing long enough and are seasoned veterans to know how to deal with crowds being the great champions they are. For the record, the OG 2012 finals were pretty split 50/50 in the cheering support for LD and LCW. There were plenty of chants for either player and they were competing with each other, trying to drown each other out, but neither could.

    There is no need to come up with all these excuses for LCW losing in the final moments of the match as there could have been more factors that lead to LD's win than us posters are even aware of. Had LCW come into the final completely healthy, he might have won the match. Then again maybe he wouldn't have. We can all name all the what if's, the what could have been's, and the why's for the outcome of the match, but that still won't change the end result or that LD has beaten LCW in most of the major events. I can only simply admire both players for one of the best singles matches I have ever watched and that it was sad only one player had to win.
    well written and i completely agreed. giving LCW an excuse why he lost would make him sound like an inferior opponent, which he is not. but for once i do feel bad for him not winning because he felt really really disappointed. when i saw the end bit, i even felt pity, and i thought LCW should win because he's such a nice guy...but then i realized this is a badminton competition, not personality competition. lol

  12. #80
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    Those analysis indicate LCW is superior to LD as a player but LD wins because his coaches do very detailed homework and help him strategise all the way, especially the finish. Whereas LCW s coaches don t even know the importance of closing out a match, so LCW has to figure out the finishing during play. But if LCW has MFrost for major tournament coach, it will be scary for CHN. But that won t happen because BAM would rather lose than let MF have the opportunity to claim credit for LCW s victory.
    With due respect, sadly your thinking is just a carbon copy of Morten Frost's own. In fact, your thoughts here have already been said out and discussed during the commentary of last year's BWF World Championship match between LD and LCW:

    Morten Frost: I must say it again, LCW is the best player..

    Commentator: But LD is the champion.

    Morten Frost: ... yes (submissively)



    I can understand your optimism and support for LCW. But up till now you still do not understand that even when people have been telling you that all you have doing is giving excuses for LCW's time and again losses against LD.

    IF LCW is really that superior as your research has told you (I dare you to post your PHD research paper on this subject in this forum), then why has LD always been the winner up to this point when going against LCW in the biggest of matches namely the 2012 Olympic Games and the 2011 World Championships finals (notice that I'm avoiding the 2010 Asian Games, 2008 Olympic Games finals because of your habit of dismissing them as oh, they were held in China blah blah blah)?

  13. #81
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    If LCW was superior to LD as a player then their head2head record would show that. You can stick your head in the sand all day doing deep analysis of all the factors affecting the matches but at the end of the day those factors are all part of sport. Sport is not players playing in perfect laboratory conditions.

  14. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    Those analysis indicate LCW is superior to LD as a player but LD wins because his coaches do very detailed homework and help him strategise all the way, especially the finish. Whereas LCW s coaches don t even know the importance of closing out a match, so LCW has to figure out the finishing during play. But if LCW has MFrost for major tournament coach, it will be scary for CHN. But that won t happen because BAM would rather lose than let MF have the opportunity to claim credit for LCW s victory. So, enjoy and be happy.
    Yes, LCW is a better player than LD but LD's coaches are better than LCW's coaches so that's why LD wins. Please keep up your comments pjswift!

  15. #83
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    I thought LCW only got better since few years back but LD was already a superior player long long time ago when most of the people outside malaysia don't even know who LCW is... The H2H records existed way when they started playing each other and that time, yes, LD was alot alot alot better than him. So its normal for LD to have so many wins against LCW in the H2H.. But until 2008 or so, LCW improved alot and manage to match LD. Still, the H2H favours LD. I remember someone in this forum said that LCW can never beat LD more than once a year. So I'm a little confused here. Isn't LD a better player? or maybe LD's style of play is a problem to LCW's?? Thats why LCW finds it so hard to beat him?? like how PSH used to beat LD last time?

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    thats just my opinion though.. I think both are great players of this era and i have great respects for them both. I'm happy for LD but sad for LCW at the same time, I hope they will continue to shine and bring us more exciting matches in the future. Though some might attribute LD's wins to luck, LCW's mental weakness and all the ****, I say they both worked hard and deserves to be on the top of the podium. Its really heartbreaking to see some people discredit a win by saying luck, crowd, mental, "the stare", injuries and all, i mean come on, which player doesn't carry injuries??

  17. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzzards View Post
    IF LCW is really that superior as your research has told you (I dare you to post your PHD research paper on this subject in this forum), then why has LD always been the winner up to this point when going against LCW in the biggest of matches namely the 2012 Olympic Games and the 2011 World Championships finals (notice that I'm avoiding the 2010 Asian Games, 2008 Olympic Games finals because of your habit of dismissing them as oh, they were held in China blah blah blah)?
    hmm, someone may tell you then that it's because LD's luck, LD's superior fantastic fans, or LD's teammates. you will better be ready.

    what is great about LD haters is that whenever LD lost to LCW, they will say that LCW deserved it, he is the best player. but when their 'best player' lost to LD, the haters will never ran out of excuse to take away all the credit from LD as the better player that day.

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