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  1. #18
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    Despite whatever scientific argument out there against stretching, I have personal experience that post game stretching does make a difference. A few years ago, I developed tennis elbow and golfer's elbow due to increasingly challenging games and improper technique. I went to a sport physiotherapist who cured me after 4 or 5 painful sessions with Intra-Muscular Stimulation (or IMS). The tendonitis stayed away for a good two years before recurring again. In that time after my treatment, I continued to play like I usually do without post game stretching. I stopped doing the stretching and other physio exercises prescribed by the physiotherapist once I felt 100% recovery.

    Bear in mind that I never seriously stretch prior to games or even after. So when the pain returned and kept getting worse, I went back to the physio but the effects weren't as productive as before. This time around, I took the physio's advice finally and kept up with the stretching even after treatment. My tennis elbow is still present but no longer debilitates and on a good day I won't even feel it. With regular stretching, I don't even use my elbow brace anymore. This anecdoctal proof is enough for me to keep doing it. In fact my body held up against harder and faster games thanks to my new habit.

    Now anyone can put out all kinds of argument against stretching and not do it, but eventually the body will breakdown. When it did for me, I could have given up the sport and rest or try doing something different to manage my pain. I tried stretching and it seriously works.

  2. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cappy75 View Post
    Despite whatever scientific argument out there against stretching, I have personal experience that post game stretching does make a difference. A few years ago, I developed tennis elbow and golfer's elbow due to increasingly challenging games and improper technique. I went to a sport physiotherapist who cured me after 4 or 5 painful sessions with Intra-Muscular Stimulation (or IMS). The tendonitis stayed away for a good two years before recurring again. In that time after my treatment, I continued to play like I usually do without post game stretching. I stopped doing the stretching and other physio exercises prescribed by the physiotherapist once I felt 100% recovery.

    Bear in mind that I never seriously stretch prior to games or even after. So when the pain returned and kept getting worse, I went back to the physio but the effects weren't as productive as before. This time around, I took the physio's advice finally and kept up with the stretching even after treatment. My tennis elbow is still present but no longer debilitates and on a good day I won't even feel it. With regular stretching, I don't even use my elbow brace anymore. This anecdoctal proof is enough for me to keep doing it. In fact my body held up against harder and faster games thanks to my new habit.

    Now anyone can put out all kinds of argument against stretching and not do it, but eventually the body will breakdown. When it did for me, I could have given up the sport and rest or try doing something different to manage my pain. I tried stretching and it seriously works.
    I agree on the post workout stretching. It works. If I don't do it, my body gets very stiff and sore the next day. If I stretch the soreness is about 75% less.

    I see a lot of people doing stretching before warming up. This is not right as "cold muscles" are usually very stiff. The muscles should be warned up doing some simple drills and jogging before the stretching.

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogerv2 View Post
    I agree on the post workout stretching. It works. If I don't do it, my body gets very stiff and sore the next day. If I stretch the soreness is about 75% less.

    I see a lot of people doing stretching before warming up. This is not right as "cold muscles" are usually very stiff. The muscles should be warned up doing some simple drills and jogging before the stretching.
    Agree. Prior to playing, best to start with some movement, gradually building it up and once the muscles have been warmed up, that's the time to stretch.

    As for post-game stretching, I try to do it as much as possible. The times I forget or simply don't do it, my body tells me in no uncertain terms the next day, haha

  4. #21
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Imo it all comes down to your age:
    if you're under 30, you don't need to do anything,
    if you're 30 and over, you can stretch if you want to,
    if you're 40 and over, like me, you'll need to if you don't want to be sore the next day.

  5. #22
    Regular Member gundamzaku's Avatar
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    i was told stretching is not necessarily good for you when your body is cold, and that the best thing to do to warm up your body is what you'll be doing, so if you're warming up for badminton, just start hitting, but hit at 50% just to warm your body and then gradually bring up the power in your shot till you're completely warmed up. post game stretching is always good i was told

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogerv2 View Post
    Lets face it, you dont have any proof to justify your statements. It is all hearsay and assumptions.
    Just because some players dont drink cold water does not mean the opposite is a fact.
    They could be blindly following some folklore stories they heard.
    I have relatives who ban their children from drinking cold water or anything cold because it will harm their health.

    I had a very good laugh seeing you use LD to illustrate your point with cold water.
    Everyone who is not a LD fanboy knows that was just a smokescreen to let CJ win.
    The context I'm putting here is icy cold water, ice. Not cool water. Not children drinking cool water when they are in hot weather, but rather after a very hectic and strenuous sporting event. I'm talking about gulping down large quantities of icy cold water like a whole 1.5L, as this can shock your internal organs at which your body absorbs water at the optimum temperature. Water temperatures of 20 degrees celcius and below to me is considered 'potentially' harmful after these type of strenuous exercise. I'm not talking about your regular stroll in the park kind of exercise. Yes I'm a fan of LD. But I am also a fan of LCW. No need to call me a fanboy. Yes I know about the dubious 'cold water' excuse, I'm not green. Yes I admit using that example isn't not concrete enough. Yes I admit I don't have the statistics and pHD studies for you. But neither do you have a pHD study stating that you drank icy cold water after every strenuous sporting activities and being monitored with electrodes all over your body and is proven that there is not a single negative symptom happening to you.
    Last edited by Pakito; 02-22-2013 at 05:38 AM.

  7. #24
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakito View Post
    As our body ages, more concern is emphasize on the durability of one's body to entertain the explosiveness of this sport. Also you might rather want to concentrate on retaining, if not improving, the durability of your body to handle the stress on your muscles and bones. In short, unless you want to be a champion for a day and no more, do light stretching. ( light or intense is quite personal to every individual). So unless the game you are playing involves the hand of your girl that you are betting, or your Ferrari that you are risking, don't go overboard without stretching or warm up.

    Preparation before and after a game

    ** Warm up and do stretching before a game. If you get injured or have cramps often, you can say goodbye to badminton faster than you think.
    ** Warm down after a game too. This is akin to divers going into depressurization chamber after a deep dive. If divers surfaced immediate after a deep dive, they will die of water in the lungs. If you don’t warm down after a game, your body will deteriorate and muscle cells will die. This is equivalent to being champion for a day, and retirement soon after. J
    ** No cold water drinks after a game. This is like pouring cold water on your car engine when it’s sizzling hot leading to engine failure. Drink warm water. Then you can enjoy cold drinks after, but not at least after 30mins.

    Careful. Pre-exercise stretching should only be done AFTER a good warm-up of the relevant muscle groups, and only lightly. If you're warmed up thoroughly, dynamic stretching will help loosen the muscles without losing explosiveness, if you want to increase the range of motion of certain muscles, static stretching is better (for example stretching the thigh and glutes will enable you to lunge more easily).
    Keep in mind that lightly is the key word here.

    Post-exercise stretching is a great way to keep your mobility, as it keeps your muscles from shortening (which happens if you train them without stretching). In some cases, it can reduce soreness the next day, although that is mainly due to the prevention of muscle shortening (i.e. you have a greater range of motion where you won't notice the soreness, but actually stressing the muscle will hurt) and because it's a form of warm-down. Warm-down exercises have been proven to reduce soreness and recovery time by up to 33% if done correctly and sufficiently.

    My warm-down consists of:
    1. warm-down jog (~5minutes, very very light, mostly done without shoes)
    2. warm-down stretching (static, done cautiously to not over-stretch a muscle, include all muscle groups stressed during training, and do it symmetrically (i.e. don't stretch only your racket arm/leg)
    [ideally: 3. a short massage of particularly stressed muscle groups (mostly calves, thighs, glutes for badminton players)]

    Another great help in recovery is consuming a mix of carbohydrates and protein right after exercise, as the increased metabolism and blood flow to the muscles will sort of 'kick-start' the recovery by getting the needed nutrients to the damaged muscles quickly. If that is in form of a protein shake, make sure it's whey protein (which is absorbed quickly as opposed to other kinds, e.g. casein which is very slow-acting and thus taken just before going to sleep).


    Agree on the warning against drinking cold water. When I caught a bad virus last year, my doctor suggested not drinking anything below ~20-25C (room temperature) during and 30-60min after exercising. Exercise stresses your body and thus makes it vulnerable, which also a reason why cold showers are not recommended. Ice baths help in muscle recovery but should also only be done if you're in excellent health.
    Last edited by j4ckie; 02-22-2013 at 07:52 AM.

  8. #25
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    @j4ckie :Excellent explanation . Most important is to do it in moderation, avoid extremes.

    Wrt cold water, as with all things it depends.

    Depends on the individual's constitution and metabolism, some people are naturally "hot" or "cold" (according to traditional Chinese med). A cold person would feel sick after icy cold drink immediately.

    Depends on ambient temperature, if in mid winter Europe you won't want to drink ice cold water immediately. Just as in Malaysia, you won't want to drink lukewarm water after. Again moderation is key, this time in temperature.
    Last edited by visor; 02-22-2013 at 11:57 AM.

  9. #26
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Thanks

    I think the rule of thumb is that room-temperature water is the least taxing. If it's extremely hot, maybe a few degrees less just so it doesn't taste as weird (i.e. in ~40C conditions you might want to drink water that's about 25-30C, which is much more refreshing than 40 would be, but not so cold that it's stressing your throat and stomach).

    To clarify the doctor's comment I mentioned in the last post - in the beginning stages the virus caused a sore and swollen throat, which could also have been caused by drinking cold fluids during exercise as the mucosa are more vulnerable then.
    Last edited by j4ckie; 02-22-2013 at 12:16 PM.

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakito View Post
    The context I'm putting here is icy cold water, ice. Not cool water. Not children drinking cool water when they are in hot weather, but rather after a very hectic and strenuous sporting event. I'm talking about gulping down large quantities of icy cold water like a whole 1.5L, as this can shock your internal organs at which your body absorbs water at the optimum temperature. Water temperatures of 20 degrees celcius and below to me is considered 'potentially' harmful after these type of strenuous exercise. I'm not talking about your regular stroll in the park kind of exercise. Yes I'm a fan of LD. But I am also a fan of LCW. No need to call me a fanboy. Yes I know about the dubious 'cold water' excuse, I'm not green. Yes I admit using that example isn't not concrete enough. Yes I admit I don't have the statistics and pHD studies for you. But neither do you have a pHD study stating that you drank icy cold water after every strenuous sporting activities and being monitored with electrodes all over your body and is proven that there is not a single negative symptom happening to you.
    After every game it is customary to down a can of 325ml 100 Plus. Me and almost everyone I know have been doing that for ages and not a single effect. I have also tried drinking room temperature water to test the theory but no difference. Well there was, the thirst quenching effect was a lot lower.

    As one of the posters commented, same people are just born sensitive to certain things. Reminds me of my friend who gets a cold after a very minor exposure to rain. I can play hours in rain and no effect. For the majority of people it has no effect.

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Imo it all comes down to your age:
    if you're under 30, you don't need to do anything,
    if you're 30 and over, you can stretch if you want to,
    if you're 40 and over, like me, you'll need to if you don't want to be sore the next day.
    I think I would personally say ..
    if you're under 20, you don't need to do anything,
    if you're 20 and over, you can stretch if you want to,
    if you're 30 and over like me, you'll need to if you don't want to be sore the next day.

    I think I read somewhere in this forum Sony seem to stretch for ages (~ 1 hour) after a match.
    Probably has to do with all the injuries he had in the past.

  12. #29
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    The general misconception on 'stretching' is this: some athletes think you should stretch or go all the way down to the last minute 'muscle elasticity' that looks like Hulk doing a Susi Susanti leg split. No, you shouldn't do that. In fact my stretching is quite static, both before and after a game, cautiously avoiding a muscle tear. Just stretch your muscle slowly and keeping track of how you feel. It depends on individual's muscle elasticity. The muscle's elasticity is much better if you are gymnast than when you are a weight lifter, just to illustrate my point. It all boils down to knowing your own muscles. Don't stretch until you yell out with tears in your eyes. For those injury prone athletes, seriously you should stick to static stretching. Static stretching is just as good as non-static ones, in fact the quality is even better. It's just that static takes into effect faster than non-static, but the latter is much safer.

    As for whether you need or need not stretch with regards to age, it's age requirement is quite presumptuous as each person ages differently from another. You may be 30 but your biological body feels like 18. You may be in your early 20s, but your biological body feels like 40s due to smoking and drinking. So you see, it's has got a lot of factors tied to this. As for the habit of drinking icy cold water without any negative effects (not necessary serious ones), unless you are a polar bear or a penguin, I'd rather be on the safe side than risking injury of the internal organs.

  13. #30
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    The general misconception on 'stretching' is this: some athletes think you should stretch or go all the way down to the last minute 'muscle elasticity' that looks like Hulk doing a Susi Susanti leg split. No, you shouldn't do that. In fact my stretching is quite static, both before and after a game, cautiously avoiding a muscle tear. Just stretch your muscle slowly and keeping track of how you feel. It depends on individual's muscle elasticity. The muscle's elasticity is much better if you are gymnast than when you are a weight lifter, just to illustrate my point. It all boils down to knowing your own muscles. Don't stretch until you yell out with tears in your eyes. For those injury prone athletes, seriously you should stick to static stretching. Static stretching is just as good as non-static ones, in fact the quality is even better. It's just that static takes into effect faster than non-static, but the former is much safer.

    As for whether you need or need not stretch with regards to age, it's age requirement is quite presumptuous as each person ages differently from another. You may be 30 but your biological body feels like 18. You may be in your early 20s, but your biological body feels like 40s due to smoking and drinking. So you see, it's has got a lot of factors tied to this. As for the habit of drinking icy cold water without any negative effects (not necessary serious ones), unless you are a polar bear or a penguin, I'd rather be on the safe side than risking injury of the internal organs.

  14. #31
    Regular Member gunner93's Avatar
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    I speak from what had happened to me...No stretching before game, my right shoulder sore after game. With stretching, less.No stretching before jogging, my leg muscles hardened up. With stretching, better.Drink cold 100plus - I feel lazy after game. Drink room temp water - feel normal.Just me.

  15. #32
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  16. #33
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    And this is dynamic stretching warmup. Start halfway thru.


  17. #34
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    I can see 2 of them are borrowed from yoga postures which I like.

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