Do you prefer isometric or oval head rackets?

**taneepak** · 10-09-2008, 12:47 AM

The following ar some tips which you may find helpful when choosing racquets.
There are 4 major factors besides material quality that one should consider: balance, weight, head size, and overall length. Any increase will give more power but at the cost of speed. It is therefore up to you or the racquet designer to optimize these 4 factors.
Take the AT-700 which has been well optimized for power and at the same time is not cumbersome. It has a much larger iso head size than the MP99, heavy balance, and a longer shaft for more power, but it does not go for the heavy 2U weight category to avoid slowing down the speed of the racquet. Also very long racquets that go up to the max. 680mm should never be 2U category because its long overall length has plenty of power which can do without any extra weight of 2U.

**weeyeh** · 10-09-2008, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by silentheart

If any one ask me to verify my statement on Cab30ms has bigger frame size/stringbed area than MP99, I will do so and that member better keep your mouth shot and not to give any excuse.

Why do I have a feeling I know who it is

**fixingbones** · 10-09-2008, 08:40 AM

1) You have found one of a few examples where overall head size for iso is smaller than oval. USUALLY, it is the other way round.

2) Air drag is most dependent on overall surface area more than anything else, then racquet edge tapering then other factors such as shaft length.... and other factors. A stronger person with a faster swing will be able to overcome each of these in negating the effect of air drag, but equally, they will have faster swing with smaller frame size and shaft length.

3) I think that the argument one of the other posters has made about the way a racquet is held and pronating the wrist etc is immaterial because they would do the same with any racquet they played with. Anyway, it's the smash and backhand clear where swing speed is probably more important than in any other shot, where I think an oval head IMHO would nearly always win for any individual if they compared similar racquets and they were used to playing with them.

As far as I am concerened, ISOs are not for me and even if I had a reasonable oval racquet, I would not use my AT700s any more. The reverse may be true for others and I would fully understand that. I really think the ISO users should try ovals before commenting though, as many of the posts suggest they haven't done so, though I understand you may have.

BTW shotting mouths is something I am not familial with, could you explain>>>>

Originally Posted by silentheart

#1 Yes, MP99 and MP100 is actually smaller than Cab30ms. Go check it out yourself. Do not believe some one's post just because he said so without verification.

There are so many factors to effect air drag. The frame shape is one of the very small factor that effect the air drag.

If any one ask me to verify my statement on Cab30ms has bigger frame size/stringbed area than MP99, I will do so and that member better keep your mouth shot and not to give any excuse.

**silentheart** · 10-09-2008, 08:45 AM

Hi Weeyen,
Yes, you are right and have a nice weekend!!!

A member post in #313 on page 19.
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...=11868&page=19
Claim that ISO always has bigger string bed area. I think in post #391 has just contradict his own statement and verified MP99 (an ISO frame shape) is indeed smaller than Cab30ms (Oval frame shape)
Please be more specific on your assumptions and facts in the future.

**silentheart** · 10-09-2008, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by fixingbones

1) You have found one of a few examples where overall head size for iso is smaller than oval. USUALLY, it is the other way round.

2) Air drag is most dependent on overall surface area more than anything else, then racquet edge tapering then other factors such as shaft length.... and other factors. A stronger person with a faster swing will be able to overcome each of these in negating the effect of air drag, but equally, they will have faster swing with smaller frame size and shaft length.

3) I think that the argument one of the other posters has made about the way a racquet is held and pronating the wrist etc is immaterial because they would do the same with any racquet they played with. Anyway, it's the smash and backhand clear where swing speed is probably more important than in any other shot, where I think an oval head IMHO would nearly always win for any individual if they compared similar racquets and they were used to playing with them.

As far as I am concerened, ISOs are not for me and even if I had a reasonable oval racquet, I would not use my AT700s any more. The reverse may be true for others and I would fully understand that. I really think the ISO users should try ovals before commenting though, as many of the posts suggest they haven't done so, though I understand you may have.

BTW shotting mouths is something I am not familial with, could you explain>>>>

Dear Fixingbones,
1) My comment is not directed at you. So, If it sound that way, I am sorry for my tone.
2) Yes, you are almost right on that. in an easy term, air drag is most depend on the overall surface area perpendicular to the direction of the swing. So in essence, the ISO vs Oval frame shape has no effect on the aero dynamic given the overall surface area perpendicular to the direction of the swing is the same. I am trying to point this out to another member, not you. Sorry for my tone again.
3) Yes, you are right. As I posted before, to compare ISO vs Oval, you need to fix all the factors and make sure the only difference is the shape of the frame.
4) Sorry, I don't know why I missed 2 keys to the right... Also, I miss spell a lot some time when I chat while at work... And yet again, the comment is not for you. Sorry...

Ladies and gentlemen, have a nice Thursday, where ever you are.

**taneepak** · 10-09-2008, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

Look, we are talking about iso vs oval shapes of almost identical types, not one brand's huge oval vs another's smaller iso or an adult's racquet with a kid's racquet. AOTBE, an iso shape has a bigger stringbed/surface area and hence a higher drag than an oval. Of course a kid's iso is much smaller than a adult's oval-but we are comparing apples with apples not with oranges.
Iso came out for one specific reason and that is to give it a much bigger stringbed area, and hence increased power but at a price. AOTBE, a bigger stringbed area will give you more power but will be less maneuverable. AOTBE, is it technically possible to have an iso shape with a smaller stringbed area than an oval?
Now, AOTBE do you believe that oval is faster than iso?

Yes, I am restating again that an oval is smaller than an iso, AOTBE. As a matter of fact, it is commonly unnecessary to even mention AOTBE when we compare an oval vs an iso because it is generally understood.
Re racquet speed, the shape of the frame does have an affect. The top of the frame is the farthest point from your racquet hand and has a pronounced effect from any extra weight and its shape at the top of the frame. You will notice that the frame shape at the top is always narrower/slimmer than the bottom. The bottom of the frame is always wider than the top. It cannot be otherwise else we will end up with a ponderous racquet. Making the top a square will be very ponderous compared with its current slimmer shape. Making it slimmer towards an oval shape is less ponderous. Making it an iso shape is somewhere in between. This is because of the sensitive location at the top of the frame.

**taneepak** · 10-09-2008, 11:16 AM

As a matter of fact there is a very simple test to find out racquet speed by a simple strip of lead tape.
Get a strip of lead tape weighing 1.0g, overlay if necessary to reduce the strip to less than 1 inch length, and then cut into two thin strips. Apply the strips at the 12 o'clock on both inner sides of the frame.
Test the playability of the racquet over a few games. Then proceed to the following.
Take out the two strips of lead tape from the top of the frame and cut each into two halves. You now have 4 thin strips of lead tape with each strip weighing 0.25g. Apply two strips at the 2 o'clock and another two strips at the 10 o'clock. Now go for another test on the courts.
You will find a discernable difference between the two tests. One is faster and more focused, the other relatively more ponderous and less focused. Same racquet, same string, same player, same shuttle, same court but with a minor change in placement of the same weight at different loactions.

**taneepak** · 10-09-2008, 10:58 PM

Iso shape racquets have better face stability, especially on off-center hits. The reason is because of the extended "shoulders" at the top, which means a higher twistweight. This is the same twistweight you get when you stick lead tape strips at the 2-3 o'clock and 10-9 o'clock sections of the racquet frame.

AOTBE, the X-section of a frame has by far the greatest impact on racquet speed. This is because the X-section goes through the fastest part of a swing in the direction of the swing. The face of the frame becomes orthogonal to the swing only after full pronation or supination at time of impact, so its effect on speed is not as significant as the X-section.
You may want to compare your ARC 10 with say an AT series racquet of the same weight and you will notice that the ARC 10 is faster, because of its slimmer X-section. Thicker X-section gives more power but is slower.

**jymbalaya** · 10-17-2008, 07:21 PM

Isometric--------------------> 666
oh no......... the doom is upon us!
Somebody, Holy water! or better yet, vote for ISOMETRIC!
have a nice day

**SGDream** · 11-01-2008, 04:55 PM

I prefer oval the overall feel is better than iso

**K4mu1** · 11-06-2008, 11:36 PM

Better defense:
Bigger head means bigger chance to defense against smashing barrage xD...

Better sweet spot xD:
Bigger sweet spot means higher accuracy...

But I should say Oval head does better in helping training progress and help improve technique since it's harder to use

. Sometime I used them too, but when it comes to serious fight I need my iso xD...

**Danstevens** · 11-08-2008, 08:53 AM

I played with a friend's oval racket the other day, it felt surprisingly good. No-where near as powerful as my Arc10 with lead tape but the control was superb. My smash is my biggest weapon so I won't be changing to oval in a hurry but for control, oval head rackets seem to have an advantage.

**at800off** · 11-15-2008, 01:57 PM

ISO better much bigger sweet spot

**Gold-** · 12-02-2008, 08:07 PM

player said that oval head shape racquets have smaller sweetspot so my question is, playing a iso racquet(example yonex mp 100) which have smaller sweetspot is it the same as playing a oval shape racquet

**Sketchy** · 12-02-2008, 08:44 PM

Personally, I like the Prince Y-Joint rackets, which I guess are a variant of isometric?

From a physics standpoint I would think perhaps oval heads might incur *marginally* less drag, but not enough to notice, and I could be totally wrong.
My logic: Drag is proportional to the square of velocity. The top of the racket has the highest velocity, and that's where an iso is wider than an oval.

**phandrew** · 12-02-2008, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Gold-

player said that oval head shape racquets have smaller sweetspot so my question is, playing a iso racquet(example yonex mp 100) which have smaller sweetspot is it the same as playing a oval shape racquet

The actual shape of the sweetspot is different from that of iso and oval so MP100 has a smaller sweetspot of an iso frame compared to others.