Do you prefer isometric or oval head rackets?

[kwun]

You are partly right. A larger frame has a larger sweetspot as well as a higher swingweight, which means more power. AOTBE, there is no way an oval racquet can have a larger sweetspot or more power than an iso.

i only agree that a larger frame has larger sweetspot.

a larger frame does not neccessarily means higher swing weight. that also depends on the density of the material. it is more fair to compare two identically weighted racket. given two identically weighted racket, the material density of the racket head will have to be lowered to compensate for the larger sized head. so swing weight will not vary that much.

as for sweetspot vs power (or repulsion). that's a misconception. a larger sweetspot merely means a larger area near the center of the racket with simliar response. it has little to do with power/repulsion.

[Neil Nicholls]

i only agree that a larger frame has larger sweetspot.

given the same string and tension

[604badder]

True that! Also, be specify, say cab30ms!

No no, it should be the Cab 20 classic!!! That's the cab's true heritage. You can still get them new in Japan. I know, I've got one myself.

[LazyBuddy]

No no, it should be the Cab 20 classic!!! That's the cab's true heritage. You can still get them new in Japan. I know, I've got one myself.

I tried the original Cab20, but seems it's a bit too heavy for me (2u). With a weaker arm and no strength, I guess cab30ms (3u) does fit me better.

[taneepak]

The frame size is just one of four factors that have a bearing on swingweight. The other three are balance, weight, and length. A higher swingweight will give you more power, AOTBE. In racquet terms, an Iso is always more powerful than an Oval, courtesy of the higher swingweight, as well as a larger sweetspot, AOTBE.

[cooler]

A higher swingweight will give you more power, AOTBE. In racquet terms, an Iso is always more powerful than an Oval, courtesy of the higher swingweight, as well as a larger sweetspot, AOTBE.

Incorrect. A higher swingweight doesnt mean more power. The disclaimer AOTBE is a copout, god doesnt pause and equalize the universe so that your statement may hold true. If yonex believe your concept, yonex would come out with GS7000 (GigaSpeed) using stainless steel for the frame.

Iso shape wasnt designed for more power over cabs.

[wilfredlgf]

Iso shape wasnt designed for more power over cabs.

It was designed to expand the size of the racquet sweetspot. Double-edged sword, this, at the expense of somewhat lower power - spread over a larger area.

Doesn't quite explain why the Ti-10 kicks *toot* though.

[cooler]

It was designed to expand the size of the racquet sweetspot. Double-edged sword, this, at the expense of somewhat lower power - spread over a larger area.

Doesn't quite explain why the Ti-10 kicks *toot* though.

maybe because, just a guess, that 95% of your shot is off the dead center and therefore cab would feel weaker than an iso

[kwun]

The frame size is just one of four factors that have a bearing on swingweight. The other three are balance, weight, and length. A higher swingweight will give you more power, AOTBE. In racquet terms, an Iso is always more powerful than an Oval, courtesy of the higher swingweight, as well as a larger sweetspot, AOTBE.

i just want to re-iterate what i said in case taneepak has missed it:

i only agree that a larger frame has larger sweetspot.

a larger frame does not neccessarily means higher swing weight. that also depends on the density of the material. it is more fair to compare two identically weighted racket. given two identically weighted racket, the material density of the racket head will have to be lowered to compensate for the larger sized head. so swing weight will not vary that much.

as for sweetspot vs power (or repulsion). that's a misconception. a larger sweetspot merely means a larger area near the center of the racket with simliar response. it has little to do with power/repulsion.

[wilfredlgf]

as for sweetspot vs power (or repulsion). that's a misconception. a larger sweetspot merely means a larger area near the center of the racket with simliar response. it has little to do with power/repulsion.

Are you very sure about this? I'm no engineer but I think a lot will of us will be sitting on the fence for this one.

[kwun]

The frame size is just one of four factors that have a bearing on swingweight. The other three are balance, weight, and length. A higher swingweight will give you more power, AOTBE. In racquet terms, an Iso is always more powerful than an Oval, courtesy of the higher swingweight, as well as a larger sweetspot, AOTBE.

there is a contradiction there.

the 4 factors:

size, balance, weight, length. if you want to do a fair comparison, you must keep 3 factors constant and vary one of them.

if you keep balance, weight, length constant, i don't see how the size of the frame can affect the swing weight.

you have introduced an non-independent variable into the swingweight equation, and that is the size. thus causing the contradiction.

[604badder]

there is a contradiction there.

the 4 factors:

size, balance, weight, length. if you want to do a fair comparison, you must keep 3 factors constant and vary one of them.

if you keep balance, weight, length constant, i don't see how the size of the frame can affect the swing weight.

you have introduced an non-independent variable into the swingweight equation, and that is the size. thus causing the contradiction.

I hear you loud and clear Kwun, and you are right. You hit it right on the nail that tannepak's argument is changing multiple variables at the same time. It's not an analytical comparison in such a case. The argument about "swingweight" or the moment arm is moot. If all the other factors aren't held constant, there's nothing to compare.

[taneepak]

If you keep the weight, balance and length constant, it would be interesting to compare an oval 4U against an iso 4U of the same brand racquet. 4U is chosen because of it's lighter weight, which will show up the difference better. Have you ever wondered why they don't make oval 4U racquets? The modern power game squeezes every gram of power and speed advantage. It is not without reason almost all top players use iso racquets, some even using 4U iso..

[cooler]

If you keep the weight, balance and length constant, it would be interesting to compare an oval 4U against an iso 4U of the same brand racquet. 4U is chosen because of it's lighter weight, which will show up the difference better. Have you ever wondered why they don't make oval 4U racquets? The modern power game squeezes every gram of power and speed advantage. It is not without reason almost all top players use iso racquets, some even using 4U iso..

I still dont understand your beef

- why almost all top players use iso?
answer: yonex 'owns' most top players, and they chose their equips from the yonex' menu.

- weak beginners need power more so than pros. Why do beginners prefer light rackets?

- why they don't make oval 4U racquets?
answer: they do. one brand come to mind is karakal. They make 4u, 5u AND 6u OVAL regular length racquets.

[kwun]

the reason for no 4U oval racket from Yonex is two folds:

1. Yonex has pretty much moved to isometric for the larger sweetspot. i must admit, to be able to hit the sweetspot more often is a good thing. but more for the good shot % instead of the power.

2. 4U rackets are a relatively new movement by Yonex. by the time 4U rackets comes out, Yonex is no longer releasing any new racket development with ovals.

furthermore, 4U oval rackets does exist. Karakal SL70 is an oval 4U ultralight racket. not from Yonex, but i already explained why Yonex doesn't have one.

i agree a comparison would be helpful. but unfortunately it is not feasible as Yonex doesn't make a 4U oval. while Karakal doesn't make a 4U iso. to match all three factors, weight, balance and length will be a tough job.

pro players are all leaning towards ultralight iso rackets because Yonex told them to. it is all marketing.

having said that, a few still uses ovals despite the push by Yonex, Lee/Yoo (KOR), Tony Gunawan, Xia Xuanze, Shon Seung Mo are examples of recent oval users. but unfortunately, with the push of Yonex as well as retirement, soon all of them will leave the international scene or they will succumb to the marketing force of Yonex.

[jump_smash]

Since moving to Yonex with Swing Power 900SX, I have used exclusively Isometric, but lately have tried a friends Carbonex 30MS and liked it.

The other thing is I have stuck mostly with #U racquets for higher tensions, but have tried a few 4U + and found that I also like the lighter swing speed, for good control shots and nets, although technique has to be good for smash.

Just seems generally Isometric is good for doubles, and Carbonex good for singles, but there are exceptions for every rule!?

Noting with Internationals and Yonex marketing it seem to be Isometric in the main, with just the Koreans and a few sticking with Cab power.

[taneepak]

Well, at least Thomas Laybourne thinks an iso (wide-body) is better because it can take higher tension and it produces more power than an oval like the Gosen 3500. You can click the Thomas Laybourne Forum, look for "Equipment Question", and then stroll down to thread #10.