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  1. #1
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    Default Players not going to the net when I do a drop shot

    I'm an intermediate player I lack power but am good at drops. The thing I have noticed is when ever I am deep in the rear court and I play a drop shot there so many male players who are not willing to go forward, even worse is if they are already forward the start to move backwards.

    1) The problem I tell them to go forward and if they do I then feel pressured to play good attacking shots and get prone to messing up. I play much better rear court in mixed because less pressured.

    2) Is there situations where I should go forward, for example if I'm stretched and play a drive drop from deep in the corner to the nearest corner.

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    I feel your pain! Just do what I do and dont even attempt to retrieve straight blocks from my back-of-court shot. I remind my partner that the straight return is the simplest return and should be covered by them.

    2) No. The only time you should go forward is when your partner rotates out, or you follow in a smash from mid court

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    That is the problem of amateur players , u see especially those Korea , china players play. When your partner drop, your opponent may lift or cross court net. Then u be ready to receive the shutter. If u lift the shutter, be really to split, as opponent ready to smash. When yr partner, u stand in front of his court, ready for weak return or net by opponent . Then u ready to smash or tap kill your opponent . Watch cai yun or lee Yong dae position himself when he play.

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    +1 empathy. Not only has your partner given your opposition a cheap point, they've squandered an attacking platform.

    One thing I've noticed in multiple threads to do with positioning/when to move is that people talk about "when I/they play a shot". In my opinion, this is already too late.

    In level doubles, as soon as the shuttle has been hit to your partner, you take up an attacking position to support them. In bbirdman's case, as soon as the opposition lift to him (I presume you're a he), his partner should take up a position on the same side of the center-line as him and about a racket length behind the service line. From there:

    If bbirdman smashes (straight), his partner is already in a good position.
    If bbirdman drops (straight), his partner has enough time for 2 small steps towards where the shuttle will land.
    If bbirdman clears, his partner has plenty of time to move to a defensive position.
    If bbirdman smashes/drops x-court, then his partner should move across (and backwards) to cover a potential straight response.

    The important caveat to this is that the shot is a good one. Are your drops being intercepted above the height of the tape? If so, I don't blame your partner for hesitating. You also say that you lack power. Are your opponents standing close to the net, anticipating a slow response? If so, you need to work until you can play high and deep clears, especially when off-balance.

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    -1 empathy

    If you don't have strong rear-court play, you need to improve that before you ask that your partners change. Having variable, strong rear-court play is crucial in doubles. The last thing I would want is to move forward, have the OP play an expected drop-shot, and get smacked in the face by a net-kill.

    You should be mixing up your attacking play and your partner will eventually adjust to the correct formations. If he is adamant about staying in the middle, just clear it, a shot extremely underrated and powerful at the intermediate level.

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    Default Why not just hit downward.

    If you feel pressured at the back, just hit a downward shot to set up the next lift. Watch the Koreans Doubles, they don't do full power smash all the time, when they're slightly out of position, they just tap smash it.

    Aim for the middle and hit it down, chances are, they will lift again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firetab View Post
    -1 empathy

    If you don't have strong rear-court play, you need to improve that before you ask that your partners change. Having variable, strong rear-court play is crucial in doubles. The last thing I would want is to move forward, have the OP play an expected drop-shot, and get smacked in the face by a net-kill.

    You should be mixing up your attacking play and your partner will eventually adjust to the correct formations. If he is adamant about staying in the middle, just clear it, a shot extremely underrated and powerful at the intermediate level.
    That is absolutely the wrong attitude. Whilst I'm sure the op is trying to improve is rear court play, that is definitely NOT a valid excuse for your partner to be sabotaging your chances with poor positional play that can be immediately rectified.

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    Sorry, but the advice is more relevant than

    "2) No. The only time you should go forward is when your partner rotates out, or you follow in a smash from mid court"
    ,

    which is outright misinformation and wrong.

    When there's something wrong in a doubles team, the correct attitude is more, "Why is my partner doing this and _what can I do_ to better aid the partnership," not "Ugh, my partner is [excuse1] [excuse2] [excuse3]." I'm sure if he asked his partner why the partner isn't moving forward, OP might hear, "Because I don't feel comfortable in the front with you in the back / Your rear court game is weak."

    Take responsibility for your results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firetab View Post
    which is outright misinformation and wrong.
    you are welcome to your opinion, however factually incorrect it is

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    Think I came across as over emphasizing my weak rear court play. Its not that weak. Yes I have slightly less power than players of similar standard. So I use drop shots alot and do better with female players who are committed to the front court rather than males who are not.
    For some reason some of the male players I play with think drop shots are a cue for them to move away from the net.

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    @all: Let's keep the respect in these posts please.

    Regarding personal responsibility, I agree that you should always start with yourself before looking to others. In my opinion, a 'good' drop is one which can only be hit at a height significantly below tape height.

    Presuming that bbirdman's drops are ok (if not spectacular), he is justified to expect his partner to support him when he has an attacking opportunity. Only other caveat that I would add is: if you use a particular shot too much, it will lose its effectiveness.

    Regarding hitting downwards regardless: the reason the pros don't have to lift is because their smashes are powerful enough to keep their opposition sufficiently away from the net. This gives them the space to drop. This may not be the case at an intermediate level. Trying too aggressive a shot when you're pressured gives your opposition an easy out, especially if your partner is out of position. At an intermediate level, if your partner isn't supporting your attack, you may be left with clearing as your only realistic option.

    As has been eluded to in previous posts, the best way to resolve this is to talk (respectfully) with your partner. Personally, I try to broach the subject as an opportunity ("we could put more pressure on the opposition if we took up an attacking formation") rather than a criticism ("why aren't you going in when they lift to me?").

    I wouldn't recommend leaving it up to your partner to independently work it out. It's clearly bothering you enough to write a thread & could lead to resentment further down the line.

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    one issue with dealing with this problem - you can't fix it at a club if there are multiple offenders. Some people just don't care about improving. Some will think you do not have the right to advise them. Giving tips to 'a few' people will get you a reputation as a know-it-all / too-big-for-your-boots.

    I have only ever had this conversation with players I know well, socialise with, and play with outside of club night.

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    This discussion is getting a bit heated I would say!

    bbirdman: concerning your first point about getting prone to mess up... I would say the only way you could mess up is if you hit a slow and looping drop shot that puts your partner in trouble. If your drop lands a little too deep, that is fine. In this situation where you feel this pressure, add a little more pace to your drops - make them faster drops. Aim a foot above the net. In short - make your chances of correctly executing a good attacking shot higher - rather than persist with an attempted perfect drop shot which you say can go wrong when you feel nervous!

    I think your partner should always go to the front of the court when the shuttle is lifted to you. If they are constantly stepping away from the net, AND constantly making good intercepting shots, then that's fine, leave them to it. If it is constantly leaving big gaps in your formation and one or other of you is having to scramble, you MUST tell your partner to stay at the net, and then you must give yourself some more room for error.

    With regard to your second point, I would say that if you are stretching, struggling to reach the shuttle, and play a DRIVE (not a drop), i.e. it is HARD and flat not soft and flat, then I would suggest that you move forwards and your partner moves backwards. In this position, you will both be side by side (not front and back) when your opponent hits the shuttle - you are both in a good position to attack the net or go backwards. If you have hit the shot softly, then stay at the back. Your partner has time to get there and cover the net. Just be careful about overusing this shot, as its tactically quite dangerous, even if played well.

    As others have alluded to, and I am sure you are aware, there are times in doubles where you can swap positions etc. They do not apply to good fast drop shots, taken from the rearcourt, and hit either straight or towards the centre (but the straight defender should still have to take the shuttle if possible).

    Good luck

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSeeley View Post
    I think your partner should always go to the front of the court when the shuttle is lifted to you. If they are constantly stepping away from the net, AND constantly making good intercepting shots, then that's fine, leave them to it.
    I'm under the impression that the front person should back up whenever opponents lift, esp. the OP said he's deep in rear court. Going forward would leave a big gap between the front person and his partner. Front person should immediately go forward to the net once his partner plays a drop shot.

    Of course, there might be a dilemma here if OP drops all the time, in which case, going to the net as soon as opponents lift may be fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raymond View Post
    I'm under the impression that the front person should back up whenever opponents lift, esp. the OP said he's deep in rear court. Going forward would leave a big gap between the front person and his partner. Front person should immediately go forward to the net once his partner plays a drop shot.

    Of course, there might be a dilemma here if OP drops all the time, in which case, going to the net as soon as opponents lift may be fine.
    I am afraid I perhaps wasn't clear enough in my original post - when I say "go to the front", I do not mean, and I NEVER mean, go and stand literally by the net. I do not even mean go and stand in the forecourt (near the service line). As you pointed out - this is tactically stupid in some circumstances - the whole midcourt would be exposed!

    When I say "go forwards" or "go to the front" or even "go to the net", I mean to take up the tactically correct position "front" when referring to "front and back". This position as the "front player" or "net player" often means covering the midcourt and forecourt - as you said this probably means standing a bit further back in the court (thus closing the gap with the rear player).

    In the context of this discussion, I was under the understanding that the OP's partner was not becoming the "net player" even when he is receiving a shuttle in the rearcourt, and sometimes are abandoning the "net player" position if they are there, and moving backwards (i.e. moving backwards to wrong side of the court into the midcourt/rearcourt). It is an indication that that player is waiting for his partner to clear the shuttle, or for their opponent to lift the shuttle and for them to step out and attack it themselves (bad rotation). In reality, they should wait to see what shot the OP plays.

    As I said, this behaviour is a problem ONLY IF you are losing points/losing the attack because of it. If it is constantly working, let them do what they like - they are obviously reading the game extremely well. If it is causing the OP problems covering the court and attacking or making him uncomfortable, then he should insist they remain (or go to) the "net player" position.

    I hope that clears up what I said so poorly earlier?

    As you said, a partner "backing up" is fine BEFORE the shot, but not after they see it is a dropshot. However, a partner "moving backwards" implies that they are abandoning their role in the attacking formation, seemingly without good justification i.e. moving to the wrong place, not just repositioning based on their partners location.
    Last edited by MSeeley; 11-07-2012 at 10:50 AM.

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    Thanks for the clarification, MSeeley. I guess we have different interpretation of OP's points. Furthermore, as I read his (or her?) post, I being to think bbirdman, as reference to genders was used, and reaction of the partner more in line in Mixed Doubles. In that case, a drop is often used as a transition for the lady to come forward, esp. when she knows her rear court is not as strong.

    This of course is my speculation/interpretation. I could be wrong, totally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raymond View Post
    Thanks for the clarification, MSeeley. I guess we have different interpretation of OP's points. Furthermore, as I read his (or her?) post, I being to think bbirdman, as reference to genders was used, and reaction of the partner more in line in Mixed Doubles. In that case, a drop is often used as a transition for the lady to come forward, esp. when she knows her rear court is not as strong.

    This of course is my speculation/interpretation. I could be wrong, totally.
    Fair answer - if viewed in a mixed doubles scenario, with the lady at the back, the discussion may be different. However, deep in the rearcourt is not, in my opinion, a sensible time to make the transition you talked about in mixed doubles. Better to wait until you are inside the tramlines and then hit the drop and switch.

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