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  1. #154
    Regular Member betazone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diverdan View Post
    TBH LYD made his fair share of mistakes. They were unlucky. How long were LYD and JJS together before they started winning finals?
    I am not talking about tactics, this is skills deficit, not being good with drives and defence? if tactics it is easy to be corrected, but skills is something that you either have it or you don't. Just like booming smashes, if you are already in your 20s and you still cant do power jump smash, you never will in your whole life.

    Of course, I can't guarantee that Ko won't improve. But what are the chances ?

  2. #155
    Regular Member diverdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by betazone View Post
    But what are the chances ?
    Who knows but they have improved. Ko's decision making is getting better and LYD is pulling his socks up. Both aren't used to playing to fast flat game so this is an area where they can improve. Also their positioning was wrong on some points so this is another area where they can improve.

    The Chinese pair have just won the AE and put out Mo/Bo in the quarters. They could be the next big thing but Ko/Lee held them and were beating them until they wobbled and let them in.

  3. #156
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by betazone View Post
    I am not talking about tactics, this is skills deficit, not being good with drives and defence? if tactics it is easy to be corrected, but skills is something that you either have it or you don't. Just like booming smashes, if you are already in your 20s and you still cant do power jump smash, you never will in your whole life.

    Of course, I can't guarantee that Ko won't improve. But what are the chances ?
    You're talking BS. Who the hell should they partner LYD with, then? In the current squad there isn't anyone better suited to him. None of the others are better than Ko in drive defense. They also keep beating their team mates with absolute ease, so unless they can somehow get Fu Haifeng to play with LYD you're up for a couple hard months as they won't change that partnership.

  4. #157
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    Lol LYD at this point has become such a celebrity that some think he can't do any wrong!
    KSR is actually pretty good and super fast and he did temporarily partner with LYD last year. He's actually performing better this year!

  5. #158
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    Except that KSR's mentality is poor. He hangs his head and loses games easily even when he's ahead. It's rare to see him come from behind to win, and his great play is difficult to unlock for more than half a set ... Yes he's got potential, but there's a lot lacking at the moment.

  6. #159
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    Bring back Jung Jae Sung!

  7. #160
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    korea sucks now

  8. #161
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    Sucky korea was the only country other than china to win at the badminton asia championships. Makes it depressing to think about all the other countries that also suck ...

  9. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by betazone View Post
    I am not talking about tactics, this is skills deficit, not being good with drives and defence? if tactics it is easy to be corrected, but skills is something that you either have it or you don't. Just like booming smashes, if you are already in your 20s and you still cant do power jump smash, you never will in your whole life.


    Of course, I can't guarantee that Ko won't improve. But what are the chances ?

    i personally agree with beta zone. It's a skill deficit thing. I'm not saying lee is some kind of God who makes no mistakes. He certainly does, but he's overall a more consistent player. On most days you know he's just gonna deliver. Consistency is one of the indications of a top player. This is not so with Ko, whose consistency is one of the greatest weaknesses in his game. And consistency is something that you can't specially 'Improve' on. Add to that his defensive problem n his lack of strokes except his smashing, and... Well. He will always be the target of opponents. This is a huge problem if they want to win anything big.


    I personally like KSR with Lee, their Thomas cup partnership was nice to watch. But as someone mentioned above, his negative body language is an issue.


    As for people doubting if Liu/Qiu are the next big thing - they will be. They beat this Korean pair easily in the German open as well. China has another good one in HOng Wei/chai biao/ye Shen. I personally really cannot wait for Indonesia to bring it on too, they have some good young players who will be ready in a couple of years. Then we will have an interesting MD field. Cause honestly right now it's getting a little boring, with the same pairs meeting each other at the same point in different tournaments all the time. ><

  10. #163
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Having seen the Final of the India Open, it's true that most attacks were aimed at Ko. However, it's also true the Lee really did nothing special and made quite a few errors himself. Imop you can't really single out either to take the blame, they both had their fair share in it. People need to realize that Ko is not the second coming of Jung, having his own style which is really quite different from Jung's imop, and the first person who has to accept that and adjust accordingly is LYD.
    I think he'd play better initially with KSR as his style is more similar to Jung's than Ko's is, but I think it'd be foolish to tear apart both pairs so quickly after they've established good positions in the WR.

    I agree that Ko's defense isn't quite what Jung's used to be, but on the other hand, neither is his net play - in a good way. When Jung had to play the net against a real world class pair, 90% of the time he either had to lift or made an error/played a loose shot. Ko is already better around the net, being more aggressive and not quite as confused when getting a soft shot in that area.
    He does have to work on his general consistency though. A lot of unforced errors in the IO, which is a rather critical weakness with the Korean style of play (relying on their safe shotmaking, defensive abilities, and fitness pretty heavily - not quite the explosive attackers most Chinese are or creative as Koo or most Indonesian doubles).

    Anyhow, I think they're improving. Lee isn't quite as arrogant in matches anymore, and Ko has reduced his apologizing a bit. Looks like they're starting to grow into a real partnership. When Jung/Lee first formed, that wasn't such a big issue as Lee wasn't yet an established (or rather iconic) doubles player as he is now, and Jung was experienced but not really a big name. There was no clear star in the partnership, so there was no skewed balance as there was/is with Ko/Lee. While it's healthy to have a leader on court who dictates the actions, the players have to regard each other as equals or they won't perform as well as those who do. Prime example being Cai/Fu - while Cai is (usually) the playmaker on court and dictates their game, he and Fu have a very balanced relationship with no apparent superior. I think that's what Team Korea should aim for with their doubles as well...

  11. #164
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Good analysis as usual, j4ckie. But I still think KSR would be a better partner for LYD.

  12. #165
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    LYD made just as many mistakes in the final match as KSH. But KSH also had MD match earlier in the day and was already sweaty walking in to the arena.
    But I can see both improving.

  13. #166
    Regular Member betazone's Avatar
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    What BS ?!???? where are your manners ???

    I am not the coach of Korea, it is not for me to comment who to partner LYD. But I hv the rights to say Ko is not the right partner for LYD. There is no need to use the word BS, we are all civil ppl here.

    Quote Originally Posted by j4ckie View Post
    You're talking BS. Who the hell should they partner LYD with, then? In the current squad there isn't anyone better suited to him. None of the others are better than Ko in drive defense. They also keep beating their team mates with absolute ease, so unless they can somehow get Fu Haifeng to play with LYD you're up for a couple hard months as they won't change that partnership.

  14. #167
    Regular Member betazone's Avatar
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    Sorry I do not agree on your statement below, but I respect your comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by diverdan View Post
    Ko/Lee held them and were beating them until they wobbled and let them in.

  15. #168
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by betazone View Post
    Sorry I do not agree on your statement below, but I respect your comment.
    Actually you don't think Ko Lee had the upper hand in the first halves of both games? They did lead at both intervals. Only problem is after the intervals, more unforced errors started to creep into the Koreans play like several serves into net (LYD too!) and many many blocks by LYD that uncharacteristically
    ended up in the net. They would have had a greater chance to take the title if they could have been more consistent.

  16. #169
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    It is perfectly true that in the final of the Indian open, Lee made as much mistakes as Ko, and I would say made less winners.
    For the skills, who said consistency is not to be learnt? That is so untrue! Not long ago Fu's defense was awful, but it got better. Jung at the net was also much better at the end. Those pros improve all the time, if they have the correct attitude, and confidence, consistency, concentration, determination, collaboration, can all be improved.
    It seems clear that what the Korean need to improve is not Ko's skills, but their collaboration. And this is as much Lee's task then it is Ko's. Ko is not more Lee's new partner then Lee is Ko's.

  17. #170
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by betazone View Post
    What BS ?!???? where are your manners ???

    I am not the coach of Korea, it is not for me to comment who to partner LYD. But I hv the rights to say Ko is not the right partner for LYD. There is no need to use the word BS, we are all civil ppl here.
    Sorry about that particular sentence.

    The rest of the statement I stand by - who else should they partner LYD with? I don't see another player who is vastly superior to Ko in any department. His defense is probably the weakest part of his game, yet no other player in the current squad is really substantially ahead of him in that area. Keep in mind that Jung had a specific, pretty weak area in his defense as well - varying the pace of the smash would confuse him very often, resulting in him putting too much pace on a slow one or not getting ready for a hard one. He did have one of the best defensive stances though, being ready for the drop shot almost every time. I maintain that his low center of gravity and shorter levers gave him an advantage in that area compared to a taller player, just like Ko's height gives him an advantage in his offensive play (better angles, longer reach).

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