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  1. #69
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    I have a b18c engine, anything i can do with it?

  2. #70
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    ok wood_chuck_22 my PM system is not working so i'm gonna have to post it here.

    here you go. theres also a part where it tells you about how to mod the vtec engine. if you're interested in that, just tell me.

    "Why I Dislike LS/VTEC


    If it was all that great, Honda would have done it in the first place. Submitted for your approval, my thesis on why LS/VTEC is a bad idea.

    What is LS/VTEC?
    Why would Honda do that?
    What is R/S?
    Why a low R/S is bad for reliability
    What is power, exactly, and how do Hondas make it?
    B Series, by the numbers
    How VTEC works, and why it lives at high RPMs
    Why it doesn't all fit together


    What is LS/VTEC?


    A quick tutorial for anyone who doesn't already know.

    LS/VTEC is using a B18A or B18B block (referred to as an LS block, even though it was found in the RS, LS, and GS) and mating it with any of the DOHC VTEC heads- the B16A, B17A, or B18C. The principle is to use the larger displacement of the LS block (READ: higher torque) and mate it with the high end power of VTEC. I'm also sure you've heard of CR-VTEC, which is a very similar idea. It uses the B20Z block of the CR-V (NOT the B20A of the Prelude Si, for reasons that will become obvious later) to achieve the same effect, only on a grander scale. What you end up with is an engine commonly referred to as a "Frankenstein" setup, and it's all the rage these days.


    Why would Honda do that?


    So why in the world would Honda put us in such a situation- having to build these incredible motors all by ourselves? Why would they knowingly decrease displacement and torque in a car being manufactured to be faster than its lower-trimmed breathen?

    Look at it, too, from a manufacturing standpoint- Honda is already making the higher displacement B18A and B blocks (blocks are identical, only difference was in the head), so why go to the extra time and expense of developing and manufacturing a separate block, especially if it will decrease output?

    The answer is easy: R/S.


    What is R/S?


    R/S is the abbreviation for rod to stroke ratio. It is the ratio of the length of the connecting rod to the length of the piston stroke, or the distance the piston travels from the top to the bottom of its stroke. As the ratio gets lower, the amount of stress on engine internals increases exponentially, killing long-term reliability. The higher the number is, the slower the piston is traveling, killing power output.

    The ideal R/S is 1.75:1 (Three cheers for the B16A, at a near-perfect 1.74:1!).


    Why a low R/S is bad for reliability


    A low R/S means the rod will be closer to a horizontal angle on its upstroke. This means that more of its force will be pushing the piston horizontally, rather than vertically. What does this mean for your engine? Two things.

    1. There will be more stress on the sides and in the center of the rod, rather than on its ends, leaving the rod more vulnerable to breaking. Picture a straw. This is no special straw, just an ordinary drinking straw. Is it going to be easier to bend this straw by applying pressure onto its ends, or at its center? Now think of your poor connecting rods.

    2. There will be more stress on your cylinder walls. Once again, the rod is pushing the piston at a more horizontal angle- right into your cylinder walls, rather than up and through them. The risk here is double: A. Putting that piston right through the cylinder wall. B. The cylinder wall will actually flex under the pressure, causing the shape to turn from a circle to an oval or oblong shape. This causes the loss of the seal created by the piston rings. What happens? A small amount of oil could slip past into the combustion chamber. Bad things happen from here: The oil gets combusted, leaving nasty carbon deposits in your combustion chamber and exhaust ports- not a good thing for flow or valve sealing.

    It's also important to note that as the RPMs increase, so does the amount of stress on your engine's internals.


    What is power, exactly, and how do Hondas make it?

    Warning: Once you see this, you will never look at horsepower and torque readings the same again, especially after you think about it.

    P= (TR)/5252

    P= power, in horsepower
    T= torque, measured in lb/ft
    R= Engine speed, in RPMs

    Therefore:

    Horsepower= (torque x RPMs) / 5252

    Try it- pull out a dyno and see what you get.

    So from this, we can conclude that if we increase torque or engine speed, we will get more power, right?

    Remember that, it's important...

    Now how do Hondas make power? Our tiny little 1.6-1.8L engines aren't exactly oozing spare displacement and creating gobs of torque, are they? Hondas make power through revving, and revving high. So why does everyone place so much emphasis on creating torque? It's because all these bolt-ons you see advertised won't raise your redline, but they will increase torque. There's nothing wrong with squeezing every last ounce of torque out of your engine- you should. But trying to get torque from more displacement in a Honda is like trying to fill a swimming pool using a squirt gun. You'll never get enough for it to be useful.


    B Series, by the numbers


    Let's take a closer look at the B series engine blocks.

    In the B18 blocks, Honda increases displacement by using a larger crank and increasing stroke (the B20Z also has a slightly larger bore, which is bad for reasons I won't go into here). This, of course, lowers the R/S, since the rod length remains (almost) the same.

    B16A:
    Rod length: 134 mm
    Stroke: 77 mm
    R/S: 1.74:1
    Displacement: 1587.12 cc

    B17A:
    rod length: 131.87 mm
    Stroke: 81.4 mm
    R/S: 1.62:1
    Displacement: 1677.81 cc

    B18A-B:
    Rod length: 137mm
    Stroke: 89mm
    R/S: 1.54:1
    Displacement: 1834.47 cc

    B18C:
    Rod length: 137.9 mm
    Stroke: 87.2 mm
    R/S: 1.58:1
    Displacement: 1797.36 cc

    B20A (Older Prelude Si)
    Rod length: 141.7-142.75 mm
    Stroke: 95 mm
    R/S: 1.49-1.50:1
    Displacement: 1958.14-2056.03 cc

    Now you see two things: Why Honda decreased the displacement from the B18A-B to the B18C, and why the B20A is widely regarded as a not-so-great engine. Honda decreased the displacement in the B18C by decreasing the stroke, improving the R/S. This allows the B18C to rev higher, and (Hey!) increase output.

    Making sense? I bet you can see where this is going. But wait, there's plenty more...

  3. #71
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    joseph, yes but its not recommended. if you want, talk to me online for the article

  4. #72
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    love that b16a motor... yes, it's near perfection.

  5. #73
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    don't forget the good ol mouse motor, it is still in use today but with bigger c.i.

    ------------------------------------
    In 1955, Chevrolet introduced the Small Block V8. So called because of its compact design, this first V8 featured 265 c.i. of displacement and produced 180 hp. The motor was an instant and popular success. Within a couple of years, the Small Block was delivering 283 hp - one hp per cubic inch

  6. #74
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    Originally posted by cooler
    don't forget the good ol mouse motor, it is still in use today but with bigger c.i.

    ------------------------------------
    In 1955, Chevrolet introduced the Small Block V8. So called because of its compact design, this first V8 featured 265 c.i. of displacement and produced 180 hp. The motor was an instant and popular success. Within a couple of years, the Small Block was delivering 283 hp - one hp per cubic inch
    yes, but i guess like all things. the 265 ci equates to a 4.3 litre - humungous by today's standards...

  7. #75
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    lol, the 265 c.i. was at its infancy. It grew to 383 c.i. with 350 c.i. being the most productive size.

  8. #76
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    i mostly like imports, but lots of respect to old american muscle cars...
    1969 GTO.. drools...
    The new pontiac GTO is gonna be insane though... holden monero chassis with a lt1 corvette engine

  9. #77
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    The 2004 Pontiac GTO will share much of the sculpted and clean styling of the current 2002 Holden Monaro CV8 coupe, with unique Pontiac brand character including a dual-port grille and powered by a specially tuned version of the 5.7-liter LS1 V8 (shared with some models of the Chevrolet Corvette) mated to a choice of either a six-speed manual or four-speed automatic transmission.

    It is the most powerful GTO ever built with an all-aluminum 5.7L Gen III LS1 V-8 with 350 horsepower @ 5200 rpm and 365 lb-ft of torque at 4000 rpm.


    still using the good ol small block 350 but aluminum LS1
    The LT1 is iron block with Al head.
    Last edited by cooler; 11-27-2003 at 08:24 PM.

  10. #78
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    lol lt1 ls1 same thing...
    but that car is gonna haul ass

  11. #79
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    Originally posted by Chia
    lol lt1 ls1 same thing...
    but that car is gonna haul ass
    LOL, err, my next sleeper will haul that ass Literally

  12. #80
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    Originally posted by Chia
    i mostly like imports, but lots of respect to old american muscle cars...
    1969 GTO.. drools...
    The new pontiac GTO is gonna be insane though... holden monero chassis with a lt1 corvette engine
    Yawn been there done that. Actually quite amusingly for a largish V8 (by today's standards) it's actually got quite a high torque peak so you do need some revs to get nice acceleration. Then again I'm so used to motorbikes now ...

    PS aren't you guys getting the 300 kW engine (yes kW not hp)
    Last edited by Pecheur; 11-27-2003 at 09:53 PM.

  13. #81
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    True but GM isnt boasting the 2004 GTO as a killer musclecar but rather a poor boy sport car riding on old legacy name like GTO. That's why GM didn't label it as the 'GTO Judge'. It's still based on a push rod 2 valver engine design that was introduced back in 1955 (see above post). However, the new gto is faster than the first GTO. American auto makers are loosing bad to imports. What edge they have left is milking off their past glory like GTO, Mustang, Malibu, Thunderbird, etc Ford even has an edition of F150 truck using another american icon 'Harley Davidson' which makes motorbikes

    On hp vs kW, hp sounds better
    Last edited by cooler; 11-27-2003 at 11:01 PM.

  14. #82
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    Originally posted by cooler


    On hp vs kW, hp sounds better
    That's fine you can have a 300 hp engine and I'll have a 300 kW engine ;P

  15. #83
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    Originally posted by Pecheur
    That's fine you can have a 300 hp engine and I'll have a 300 kW engine ;P

    LOL, that's double fine with me. I take an engine with 300 hp and 300 ft-lb and you take a 300 kW and 300 N-m engine Happy revving while i loafs off the red light
    Last edited by cooler; 11-27-2003 at 11:38 PM.

  16. #84
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    Originally posted by cooler
    LOL, that's double fine with me. I take an engine with 300 hp and 300 ft-lb and you take a 300 kW and 300 N-m engine Happy revving while i loafs off the red light
    Hey we never said anything about Nm and lb ft ;p

    I think they both sound silly.

  17. #85
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    Originally posted by Pecheur
    Yawn been there done that. Actually quite amusingly for a largish V8 (by today's standards) it's actually got quite a high torque peak so you do need some revs to get nice acceleration. Then again I'm so used to motorbikes now ...

    PS aren't you guys getting the 300 kW engine (yes kW not hp)
    Your from australia right?
    I am just in love with the holden monero.. australian v8 supercars is where its at, best racing ever..

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