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  1. #1582
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    ^ But don't forget Adidas is made in China, whereas top end (most) Y and V are made in Japan and Taiwan. So Adidas can't go around charging as much as Y and V if they intend on building marketshare, imho.

    But fortunately for them, their top end rackets seem to be quite good.

  2. #1583
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    Victor's top end rackets are weird, some are made in Chine, some in Taiwan. I've seen some BS LYD made in China (genuine rackets) and others made in Taiwan.

    But it is quite true that their rackets do cost less to manufacture, however the market will really set the prices. Li-Ning rackets generally cost less than Yonex rackets (wholesale) but retail for more, closer to their MSRP compared to Yonex. It'll be interesting to see how the prices for Adidas equipment will settle.

  3. #1584
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    I'd say adidas is quite fortunate to pick the right time to enter the market with its user friendly range in the current state when Y has gone to the extremes of head heavy vs head light, and V is still struggling to come up with a really good 4/5 mod head heavy 4/5 stiffness racket.

    Looks like adidas didn't simply just oem some rackets off the shelf from the manufacturer, looks like they actually put some serious thought into the design of its playability.

  4. #1585
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    V is still struggling to come up with a really good 4/5 mod head heavy 4/5 stiffness racket.
    Beg to differ on this. Victor's MX JJS is a clear winner here.
    not to mention BS-LHI, and other closely specd BS-11, BS-LYD, (even TK-8000!).

    I would agree that Victor doesn't have a flagship extra stiff, extremely head heavy like VT-ZF and Lining N-90 but they're no pushover on the 4/5HH-4/5stifness rackets...

  5. #1586
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    anyone knows if MBS carries adidas bag line?

  6. #1587
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    I understand.

    I'm also caught deciding between APP and Duoforce, especially after reading kwun's reviews.

    But Duoforce is not widely available!
    Don't understand Adidas marketing...
    Haha, I'm probably one of the few people with a Duoforce in YVR.

  7. #1588
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    I agree.

    The prime cost is only a fraction of the total cost. There were huge capital employed including setting up badminton division, factory, etc.

    Adidas is already a well known brand, and they started with focusing on high end market likes what Li-ning has done.

    IMHO, the best strategy is to produce high quality products which is better than Yonex in some way, e.g. higher tension limit, better paint work, better durability etc.

    On the other hand, sponsors national teams, e.g. Indonesia, Thailand.

  8. #1589
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    Quote Originally Posted by yan.v View Post
    Trying to enter a new market by pushing high end products for low prices is not a good idea marketing wise. They'll either make their already established competition lower their prices for a while to kill the new competition (and it can't stay that way for long, because those high prices are actually justified) OR they'll have people get used to their low prices and when they end up having to raise these prices, people will whine because they raised their prices to others' level.

    Every dollar you spend on badminton equipment can be justified by the company. You may only see that it only costs them between 30$ and 90$ to actually make the racket, but you also have to account for huge R&D expenses, huge marketing expenses (including sponsorships), huge QA costs, all the staff they have to pay, their equipment, and then you have to account for the fact that they have to "sell" those products to a distributor that has to sell them for profits to retailers that have to sell them for profits to customers.

    People tend to focus way too much on the price point and want to go get it straight from the factory for 50$, but thats not how it works.

    For low price equipment, you should buy Apacs stuff or some other brands that don't really do any R&D or any of that other stuff and sell you directly their 15$ racket for 50$. That is actually the most economic and the best price/value way to go, but you won't get the "shiny" new technologies and stuff. To each their own preferences, Civic vs Porsche :P
    there are different types if strategy to enter a market. skimming is not the only way even though yes if you want to aim high, you need to go for this. but it is so risky unless they believe it should be a make orr break condition.
    if you go for something like this, many people will hate how an unknown brand entering the market with such a high price. they got saved by how many people eat the hype esp since people build a lot of hype here before it is released

    and what, expensive? I bought my MX80 for $130 before they increase the price (2 years ago). Victor even did it. they increase the price and no one cares. as long people like it, they will buy it
    let the customer know that this brand is good. $130 is higher than any mid end racket but lower than high end. people with new start up also did the same (even though adidas is not 100% new since they got the brand name already). and yes, am I going to pay for the brand name while before I know I can get the good one for $130 (at least before the price goes up)? I don't think so.

    they are right from the start aiming for such a high place. it really reminds me of li-ning. I don't like it so much that it gives negative impact on adidas

    they could say "introductory price" if they believe their rackets are so good that can compete with Yonex or Victor's price, give us reason to try it (again they are saved by the hype and review). and then increase it, no one will complaint. it will bring a very huge hype. establishing base customer / fans / foundation and plus huge demand for their racket where suddenly everyone use adidas instead of yonex or Victor or li-ning (increasing the hype). this way the brand will stay strong in the long term.
    maybe they believe their brand name is so strong that they can persuade people to buy.. (plus I think there are some inside people also help to build the hype)

    expensive + unknown brand in badminton = nah, I will pass

  9. #1590
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    Quote Originally Posted by ya4dang1 View Post
    I agree.

    The prime cost is only a fraction of the total cost. There were huge capital employed including setting up badminton division, factory, etc.

    Adidas is already a well known brand, and they started with focusing on high end market likes what Li-ning has done.

    IMHO, the best strategy is to produce high quality products which is better than Yonex in some way, e.g. higher tension limit, better paint work, better durability etc.

    On the other hand, sponsors national teams, e.g. Indonesia, Thailand.
    opening a new division (as big opening a new brand) is very costly, it is very normal and it should be taken by everyone who wants to enter to market

    when the brand is big, actually they have advantage in many areas, joint R&D with golf & tennis department, cheaper material (since they know the right supplier already, plus bulk sell with decrease the price). there is no reason not to do market penetration.

    high quality? what quality? higher tension limit? all yonex racket can reach 36lbs, apacs even warranty at 40lbs. the Yonex's tension limit is very low since it is for warranty purpose
    better paint work? err.. it helps, but so far, the paint work is not really good compared to Y or V. better durability? oh, panda power ultra is built like a tank
    actually, we are already reaching to the point where there is no substantial improvement can make people go "wow" (at least in term of material). I am even quitting listening all Yonex's crap about their adding 14% smash power, 7% speed etc because of XX technology

    sponsoring is much more makes sense as that's how li-ning get their names now.

  10. #1591
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    ^ you mean you don't believe in tbh/yonex record breaking smash of 493 km/h?

  11. #1592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    expensive + unknown brand in badminton = nah, I will pass
    Amen! 100% agreed

  12. #1593
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malayali View Post
    Amen! 100% agreed
    That's what I initially thought too... until I tried the Power Pro.

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  14. #1594
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    For adidas to succeed in badminton, they need to a few more years.

    Victor got here because they were able to start sponsoring the Korean team a few years ago after YY left. Of course, Victor makes good products.

    What adidas now needs is a big sponsorship deal with a big team: China, Korea or Indonesia. After that, they need to sponsor more PSS/SS events. They will need a few years to do these.

  15. #1595
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    ^ you mean you don't believe in tbh/yonex record breaking smash of 493 km/h?
    in a sense, I don't really care lol.. it is just like, oh it happened, and then accepting that it can be done when everything is perfect, but there is no proof that it can be done in tournament condition. so it is more like a knowledge for me, not some wow factor (493km/h smash! that cannot be done in an important match like finals, kinda pointless right?)

    let's just say I stopped going for main stream racket after they stuffed so much "shiny" technology gimmicks (and trying to increase their price and say it is "justified") that I got bored of it.

  16. #1596
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    in a sense, I don't really care lol.. it is just like, oh it happened, and then accepting that it can be done when everything is perfect, but there is no proof that it can be done in tournament condition. so it is more like a knowledge for me, not some wow factor (493km/h smash! that cannot be done in an important match like finals, kinda pointless right?)

    let's just say I stopped going for main stream racket after they stuffed so much "shiny" technology gimmicks (and trying to increase their price and say it is "justified") that I got bored of it.
    Of course it can be done in a tournament ... when it is measured in the same way .

    Adidas' price strategy is pretty clear as well and definitely not like Li-Ning. Adidas is retailing for just below Yonex prices with relatively low RRP in comparison to Yonex whilst Li-Ning was out of this world full (Yonex level) RRP ...
    Last edited by demolidor; 10-03-2013 at 02:16 PM.

  17. #1597
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    It depends heavily on the market. Here, Li Ning is mostly just slightly below Yonex, while Adidas isn't really available. The Power Pro is more expensive than any other racket though, while the Precision 88 and Tour are cheaper than most BS and 2nd gen N-series rackets.

  18. #1598
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Yes nowadays Li-Ning prices are much more reasonable but not at introduction. Then again I think it took quite a while to be available in Europe but iirc they still cost more than Yonex, probably that image is mostly because of the N90 price , most other models were quite a bit cheaper than that one ... iirc.

    On a sidenote: NRZS price seems to be 160 euro around here mostly for a strung one (150 unstrung).
    Last edited by demolidor; 10-03-2013 at 02:36 PM.

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