User Tag List

Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast
Results 69 to 85 of 149
  1. #69
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    298
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    But if you withdraw from an obligatory tournament before it has started, because you are injured, surely there is then no fine? I thought the fine was just if you skip it for no reason. I think it's bad if the fines apply also when the player is injured.

    Obligatory tournaments is necessary for the tour to secure that we have tournaments where all the top players show up. 6 of them in 1 year is really not too much to ask for.

  2. #70
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    298
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Borbor View Post
    Which is what LYB did. He followed the rules. He sent the players to show up in order to avoid the fines, and then he sent them home citing injury to either have them rest or attend the training camp. Sending them home isn't breaking the rule is it?

    They could've let them stayed home, but then the bill for them staying home would've probably cost more than the bill of sending them there and then sending them home after a day or two.

    I don't understand the big deal over this. It's not like the red-yellow jerseys are the only people who does it. Yah I was looking fwd to a LCW - CL SSF MS F that never materialized, but big whooping deal. So they WD, but they'll be back at other tournaments.
    The big deal is that it looks weird with all these matches getting underway and then have the players withdraw. It's bad for the tournament since the spectators get disappointed. It would be preferable to withdraw before the tournament starts and the empty spots can be fillled up by other players. But if there are fines to pay even when a player is injured, I understand that they do what they need to avoid these fines. Bad system.

  3. #71
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    100
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rogerv2 View Post
    Before China turn this whole sport into a laughing stock, something drastic must be done. Like everyone pointed out they just don't give a damn. The withdrawals are all pre-planned and so obvious.

    I say ban them for the whole year from all BWF competitions.
    Will BWF have the balls to do anything about this? The most likely answer is no.
    To LYB, BWF competitions are nothing as you can see what he has done in most of the bwf super series including the premiers.
    Let's look at this, all the moves and plans from China team only have one objective - to get as many gold+silver as they can in the Olympics.

    Therefore, the most powerful tool (or punishment) against them is to ban them from taking part in the Olympics.

  4. #72
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    the moon
    Posts
    149
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vixter View Post
    But if you withdraw from an obligatory tournament before it has started, because you are injured, surely there is then no fine? I thought the fine was just if you skip it for no reason. I think it's bad if the fines apply also when the player is injured.

    Obligatory tournaments is necessary for the tour to secure that we have tournaments where all the top players show up. 6 of them in 1 year is really not too much to ask for.

    But if you withdraw from an obligatory tournament before it has started, because you are injured, surely there is then no fine?

    The stupid BWF rule says, you will still be fined!

    According to the rule, a top player must participate an obligatory tournament no matter what happended. but if you participate and then withdraw, it's okay.

    what an absurd and stupid rule! I have totally no words about it. Only a crazy man could write a rule like this. BWF are just treating players as slaves.
    Last edited by dieter_spath; 01-10-2013 at 05:50 AM.

  5. #73
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    the moon
    Posts
    149
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LYB is not a decent person in many people's eyes, but BWF is not well organized either. In an interview, LYB once said BWF never listen to China's advices. Before OG, Chinese national team send their concerns about group stage in OG, BWF would not listen at all. LYB and most of top chinese players have complained many times that there are too many tournaments for players, they are getting tired and the probability to get injured is very high, BWF would not listen either. So which one should we blame? LYB or BWF?

    There were never any kind of rules go for China if we look it carefully. Interestingly, what BWF had ever done is to make players from other country become so inferior to top chinese players. Why? Because there are just too many chinese players and to many people studying badminton, they can adapt new rules easier than others. If we look into the situation of table tennis (or PingPang), the same thing is happenning, after so many rules changed, China now become the only powerhouse.

    OG gold medal, of course, is LYB's final goal so far. But back to 1976, China was not allowed to participate OG. And BWF would not adopt the membership of China. China then decided build their own association along with some neighboring countries and even held a "world cup" badminton tournament. BWF thought that it was a great threat and then had to adopt China as a member. I just hope BWF won't let it happen again.

  6. #74
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    @Hollanti
    Posts
    11,772
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    How many of you brainiacs have even bothered to read the rules?

    Complaining without substance smh ...

  7. #75
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    @Hollanti
    Posts
    11,772
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dieter_spath View Post
    But if you withdraw from an obligatory tournament before it has started, because you are injured, surely there is then no fine?

    The stupid BWF rule says, you will still be fined!

    According to the rule, a top player must participate an obligatory tournament no matter what happended. but if you participate and then withdraw, it's okay.

    what an absurd and stupid rule! I have totally no words about it. Only a crazy man could write a rule like this. BWF are just treating players as slaves.
    That is just categorically incorrect ...

  8. #76
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    298
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by demolidor View Post
    That is just categorically incorrect ...
    So you are saying that there is no fine when withdrawing beforehand citing injury?

  9. #77
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    12,014
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vixter View Post
    So you are saying that there is no fine when withdrawing beforehand citing injury?
    There IS fine! No fine only if withdraw before draw is made, as per the rules. For top 10 players/pairs, even if injured, must attend promo activities organised by BWF to avoid the USD5,000 fine.

  10. #78
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    TW, SG, HK
    Posts
    7,314
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    8. PLAYER COMMITTMENT
    8.1 Players occupying the top 10 places in the BWF World Ranking list of a specified date (BWF Super Series Guidelines) in Menís Singles, Womenís Singles, Menís Doubles, Womenís Doubles and Mixed Doubles will be required to play in all BWF Premier Superseries Tournaments and a minimum of 4 BWF Superseries events occurring in the full Calendar year, further details and penalties for failing to fulfill this obligation are outlined in Appendix D.

  11. #79
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    12,014
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    1.3 Failure to play in any BWF Superseries Premier, by a player committed to the BWF Superseries Premier via the BWF World ranking (as 1.1 and 1.2 above) will be considered a breach of Competition regulations and in addition to General Competition Regulations 31. Penalties – 31.2 Withdrawal Offence will receive a US$ 5,000 additional penalty over and above normal withdrawal fees. In addition, BWF will have the right to consider further penalties after consideration by the Disciplinary Committee.

    1.4 Exemption from the additional penalty (as in 1.3 above) will be considered by BWF on receipt of a valid Medical Certificate. The said player will be required to attend the tournament they have failed to play in for a minimum of 2 days and take part in any media event arranged by BWF during that time. BWF have the right to waive this obligation if medical conditions prevent travel.

    1.7 Failure to play in the minimum number of BWF Superseries tournaments, by a player committed to the BWF Superseries via the BWF World ranking (as in 1.5 and 1.6 above) will be considered a breach of Competition regulations and in addition to General Competition Regulations 31. Penalties – 31.2 Withdrawal Offence will receive a US$ 5,000 additional penalty over and above normal withdrawal fees. In addition, BWF will have the right to consider further penalties after consideration by the Disciplinary Committee.

    1.71.8 Exemption from the additional penalty (in 1.7 above) will be considered by BWF on receipt of a valid Medical Certificate. The said player will be required to attend the tournament they have failed to play in for a minimum of 2 days and take part in any media event arranged by BWF during that time. BWF have the right to waive this obligation if medical conditions prevent travel.

    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file_dow...d=422719&tid=1
    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/page.aspx?id=21711

    Pls take some time & effort to look thru BWF website.
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 01-10-2013 at 07:25 AM.

  12. #80
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    in front of my lappie
    Posts
    870
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Btw, why are people always complaining at china team? when china team didn't listen to BWF, people complain. and now, even when china team obeying BWF's rule, people still complain. it's BWF's rule that top players must attending SSP (and China team already did it well. nearly all of their top players coming, except one Mr. Don't-even-care ). even if being injured, they must show up on the venue for promotional activities and other (again, the players already did it well. they even show up on the court itself!).

    There was one opinion by one member here that pretty well said: no LD = no badminton, this kind of thinking must be changed. i agree with that. and BWF also need to consider this opinion. no top players = no good badminton, this kind of thinking must be changed too. we still could have a lot of attractive and good games/matches of badminton if the participants are the players that ready to fight and interested for the title.

    About badminton destructions as a sport, BWF's rule which asking the top players to show up if don't wanna be fined is one of the contributing factor for that to happen. and people should not only targetting china team on this issue. you all should still remember 2012 SSFinals? it's not only chinese players that played badly there, but also another country players. and why? because BWF wants them to play, even when they don't want to, for any personal reason. if the top players indeed not interested to play a tournament (let it because injuries, major or minor one; doesn't prepared enough, have another important things to do, etc) then let them choose not to participate and give the empty slots to players who really want and interested to play. if BWF still stay with it rules like they have now, then maybe we'll still see some boring and awful matches like some in 2012 SSFinals', also more WDN, either it's because 'real' injuries or not one.

  13. #81
    Regular Member betazone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    singapore
    Posts
    172
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well said and precisely.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielwong View Post
    I can only say, what CHN did will sooner or later destroy the reputations of the sport....
    national pride is important but overall it will kill the status of the sport as a game recognised worldwide....
    the first blunder is during Olympic...of course some Walkover or injury here and there..

    badminton will become a joker's sport

  14. #82
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    @Hollanti
    Posts
    11,772
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vixter View Post
    So you are saying that there is no fine when withdrawing beforehand citing injury?
    There is a small $250 fine if withdrawing within 2 weeks of the start for apparently "inconveniencing" the organizers (which I agree is questionable) but what I was mainly pointing out is they do not make injured top players play in the tournament. Which is the main focus of this thread isn't it: Chinese top players entering and withdrawing to avoid the fine because it's cheaper that way ...

    Of course if you have to pay the flight and stay yourself even for promotional activities when you are injured you might as well protest it in this manner. At least in tennis it's up to the tournament organization to provide stay and air fare, but then again they are working with much bigger budgets.

    Players need to change their mindsets if they hope for any growth. A small sacrifice now, for future gain ...

  15. #83
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    @Hollanti
    Posts
    11,772
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bad's fan View Post
    Btw, why are people always complaining at china team? when china team didn't listen to BWF, people complain. and now, even when china team obeying BWF's rule, people still complain. it's BWF's rule that top players must attending SSP (and China team already did it well. nearly all of their top players coming, except one Mr. Don't-even-care ). even if being injured, they must show up on the venue for promotional activities and other (again, the players already did it well. they even show up on the court itself!).

    There was one opinion by one member here that pretty well said: no LD = no badminton, this kind of thinking must be changed. i agree with that. and BWF also need to consider this opinion. no top players = no good badminton, this kind of thinking must be changed too. we still could have a lot of attractive and good games/matches of badminton if the participants are the players that ready to fight and interested for the title.

    About badminton destructions as a sport, BWF's rule which asking the top players to show up if don't wanna be fined is one of the contributing factor for that to happen. and people should not only targetting china team on this issue. you all should still remember 2012 SSFinals? it's not only chinese players that played badly there, but also another country players. and why? because BWF wants them to play, even when they don't want to, for any personal reason. if the top players indeed not interested to play a tournament (let it because injuries, major or minor one; doesn't prepared enough, have another important things to do, etc) then let them choose not to participate and give the empty slots to players who really want and interested to play. if BWF still stay with it rules like they have now, then maybe we'll still see some boring and awful matches like some in 2012 SSFinals', also more WDN, either it's because 'real' injuries or not one.
    (Most) People beforehand come/watch for names, not necessarily play. If you cannot guarantee a tv station your top players are attending an event why would they pay for the broadcast right. Why do you think tennis prize money is on the rise year after year after year? Consistency in the product they offer tv stations and sponsors made possible by these attendance rules which BWF has only copied, not invented. BWF may want to review the calendar yes but players need to change their mindsets as well ...

  16. #84
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    354
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Copying tennis' attendance rules is a recipe for disaster. As a sport, badminton is not on the same level as tennis in terms of economic backing (aka purse money). So while it MAY work for tennis, it's obviously not working for badminton.

    Besides which, players are usually playing not for themselves (as in the case of tennis) but are part of the group that a country sends out to compete. So a lot of times, they aren't even their own boss so to speak.

    Prize money going up has more to do with the branding of the product than the consistency of the product. I don't think badminton had any consistency problems in the last 8 years with the top 4 spots in MS being fairly stable (just like in tennis where the top spots in tennis have been fairly stable for the past decade or so, and golf where THE top spot was pretty stable from 1997 to 2009). If you have one megastar or a few superstars that you can package your marketing around, it's easier to sell to sponsors. Problem is, in badminton the stars don't report to themselves and they don't always call their own shots.

  17. #85
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    @Hollanti
    Posts
    11,772
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Of course in the end you can never dream of getting to the same level of tennis. The US Open for one get's $80 million, half of total revenue, from ticket sales and most of the other half from tv deals and sponsorships. Players speaking english, another dream too far? Even Brazilian prostitutes are learning English now.
    Australian Open director mentioned increased tv coverage of the tournaments preceding this year's Australian Open have led to increased ticket sales ...

    But getting on tv period for badminton is a task on it's own already and priority #1. Tv broadcast money though even in tennis and the majority of sports is a big pice of the pie and you cannot get tv deals without some guarantees of the stars being marketed actually showing up (and what point is there of sponsoring an event without media/tv coverage). College tennis in the US apparently changing their format as well to be more tv friendly in the hopes of a tv deal with ESPN (sound familiar ?) Everyone is criticizing but no one is coming up with a different solution. If you have attendance rules in place there is not much even the national association can say about it is another way of looking at it ...


    "ATP Tour players flex tired muscles and talk of strikes

    After initial talks involving Murray, Federer, Nadal and Roddick, players will discuss the situation at next month's Shanghai Masters


    Matt Scott
    The Guardian, Tuesday 20 September 2011 17.23 BST

    Andy Murray's talk of a potential strike comes with the authority of the former world No1s Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer and Andy Roddick. The four held a meeting to discuss the state of the game after a long and dispiriting US Open tournament this month, and a jaded view of the ATP Tour's schedule emerged.


    Murray and his peers are not mere shop stewards, but wealth creators for the sport. Theirs are the names that pull in the spectators and broadcasters' dollars, and the threat to withdraw their labour would strike fear into promoters.


    It is, moreover, understandable. A condition of entry to the ATP Tour is that all players must participate in the four grand slam tournaments, eight Masters events, four of the 11 ATP500 tour and the World Tennis finals at the O2 in December.


    Those 17 commitments mean about 20 weeks a year of competition playing time, with many more weeks of travelling, preparation and training. Nadal, for instance, has played 72 matches in the eight months of this season alone, equating to 1,784 games in competitions.


    But even for all that exertion – the four have won 150 career titles and generated $145m total prize money between them – sponsorship income brings in multiples of that sum.


    "We'll sit down, talk about it with the Association of Tennis Professionals and International Tennis Federation, see if they will come to a compromise and if not, we'll go from there," Murray told the BBC, ahead of a meeting with tour players at the Masters tournament in Shanghai next month.


    When asked if that might include strike action, the world No4 responded: "Yes, I think so. It's a possibility. I know from speaking to some players they're not afraid of doing that. Let's hope it doesn't come to that but I'm sure the players will consider it.


    "If we come up with a list of things we want changed – and everyone is in agreement, but they don't happen – then we need to have some say in what goes on in our sport At the moment, we don't."


    Tennis players do, however, have a bigger say in what goes on than in any other major sport than golf. They hold a 50% share of the ATP, with the other 50% held by the promoters. Nadal and Federer are, respectively, the vice-president and president of the player council, the 12-man board that feeds their views to the ATP's board. "The players should and do have a major say in how the game is run, which is one of the key reasons the ATP Tour was formed as an equal partnership between players and tournaments," said the ruling body in a statement.


    "The calendar has long been a topic of conversation and just last year we announced that we would be lengthening our off-season by two weeks beginning in 2012, meaning players will have seven weeks in between ATP World Tour seasons."


    The difficulty for the ATP is that it must balance the concerns of the big-name players with the financial requirements of their counterparts across the net. At the Shanghai Masters the winner will earn US$620,000. First-round losers will pick up only US$11,500 each.


    The last major alteration to the schedule came in 2009 when five-set finals were consigned to history, entry lists to the Masters events were reduced and byes were extended to the top-eight seeds. It meant a new cycle of broadcast contracts, typically of three years' duration, began at that point, reducing the flexibility for change to the tournament schedule.


    The next cycle begins in 2012 but there is an argument that several of the 2009 changes have reduced the return the spectators receive from their sport.


    Tennis faces a dilemma similar to many sports. There are a small number of sporting and financial powers whose participation drives the revenues of the entire game. But, as one insider said: "Each player will have different priorities. The world No80 is not likely to want to cut back on the number of tournaments. They want to play as much as they can."
    Last edited by demolidor; 01-10-2013 at 04:00 PM.

Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •