Results 103 to 119 of 152
08-18-2013, 11:06 PM #103
amleto liked this post
08-18-2013, 11:38 PM #104
08-19-2013, 03:53 AM #105
I still think my idea of crop tops ie half shirts would be best at allowing the service judge to better estimate the lowest rib. And it'd definitely draw more viewership in line with BWF's plans.
Last edited by amleto; 08-19-2013 at 03:57 AM.
08-19-2013, 01:35 PM #106
Secondly I think you are reading the rules without taking into consideration what I have said about the service action and reason the word "obvious" was injected into it.
In principal as long as you serve somewhere below the top of the net, you have already accomplished the first rule I laid out which was "to serve in a upward trajectory", can we agree to this?
The language "obvious" is subjective I concede that point, but its usage is necessary because it puts the responsibility on the server to serve farther down from the top of the net to create an "obvious" upward trajectory of the bird. The language was included to make player stay closer to the rules, rather than skirting the rule's edges of an subjective determination (location of the lowest rib) like we have today, which is why it looks like a lot of player's lowest rib is somewhere near the bottom of their chest, especially when you don't have service judges!
So I think that it's much easier to objectively determine the serve point relative to the top of the net, than it is to determine objectively the position of the lowest rib relative to the serve point.
08-19-2013, 02:08 PM #107
Look "obvious" is not even vaguely measurable so it is a non starter. You have not proposed a followable rule here just an idea of how you would like to see service go down. If I see a shuttle being hit 1 degree up I think that is obviously going up. Others wouldn't consider it untill say 25 degrees up. Same with the racket pointing downwards.
If you are saying the rule should be serve anywhere below the tape, in an upward direction with the racket pointing in a downwards direction fair enough.
08-19-2013, 02:59 PM #108
This is very interesting! I was not aware of this. I have been serving the same way forever now, and it probably won't change. I mean, I just do club play, along with some local (and currently extremely) small time tournaments. I always keep part of the head just below my waist upon service, and have had little issues with getting a good low serve over. *shrug* But still, the way some players kinda push that envelope and seemingly bring that racket up to almost mid chest when they hit the bird, ESPECIALLY like Mohammad Ahsan in that World Championships MD final!! And got called out on multiple times..haha.
08-19-2013, 03:50 PM #109
craigandy liked this post
08-19-2013, 06:17 PM #110
Lowest rib on every person is where your elbow is when having arms fully extended down at your sides. It's the same as everyone, and every experienced umpire should know this.
visor liked this post
08-19-2013, 08:00 PM #111
If you are able to differentiate between 1 degree up (not a fault) and 0 degree flat (fault) and the serve is 1 degree up then don't call a fault. But I suspect most service judges would be unable to discern that difference and that is where "obvious" comes into play. It is up to the player to perform a service that a service judge would have no problem deciding if the service is going up (not a fault) and flat (fault).
I am assuming that placing the player with the responsibility of demonstrating the service trajectory to be going up will put a constraint on how high they can serve and pressure to serve lower, so as not to be faulted. I am also assuming that the difference between a service trajectory clearly going up or flat is not insignificant, but without looking a pictures services at 0,1,2,3 ..nth degree, we would just be speculating.
08-19-2013, 08:02 PM #112
08-19-2013, 08:37 PM #113
I don't think this is a good way to do it, but just for arguments sake, if what I said:
"If you are saying the rule should be serve anywhere below the tape, in an upward direction with the racket pointing in a downwards direction fair enough."
Is exactly what your saying, then I can tell you it is impossible to not hit the shuttle upwards without it going into the net. So you wouldn't have to judge 1 degree etc, if he made contact below the tape even a mm and the shuttle goes over it has gone upwards that would be obvious to anyone.
Last edited by craigandy; 08-19-2013 at 08:40 PM.
08-19-2013, 11:13 PM #114
In your example of 1mm, if I am right and the service judge can not tell the difference between serving 1mm below or at 0mm then the server would be faulted.
08-20-2013, 05:16 AM #115
08-20-2013, 07:09 AM #116
08-20-2013, 02:37 PM #117
The difference between my proposal and yours is that you are requiring the service judge to make precise distinctions and measurements like 45cm(legal) and 45.1(fault), which I believe is impossible. My proposal, the server has the obligation to demonstrate clearly that the serve is going up, to the satisfaction of the service judge, I believe that distinction is much easier to determine than yours.
In your proposal I bet servers will still get faulted for serves at 45cm and (+/- an amount of cm) above and below 45cm, which will lead to the same confusion and frustration we have today with the lower rib determination. My proposal, the onus is entirely on the player which put pressure on the server to serve lower since in the language I've used, it makes any serve close to the top a fault.
08-20-2013, 03:24 PM #118
Stone cold facts: Easily identifiable, Serve point and Top of the net, Agreed?
Serve can either go up, flat or down, Agreed?
Umpire decide: Did I see the bird go up? If so, then good! If no, fault! Was it close, fault. Agreed?
Pls kindly let me know which step I am forgetting? thx
08-20-2013, 03:29 PM #119