NEW: Fixed Height Experiment for Service

[craigandy]

There's a difference between "doesn't work amazingly" and "works godawfully".

When deciding upon rules, some consideration should be given to amateur play. A system that only works well for 1 in 10,000 players is a poor system.

I suppose there's nothing to prevent them using different rules depending on the officiation available (i.e. club rules don't change, pro rules do).

Your right there is a difference i suppose and in an ideal world, but they need to call it somehow and I don't see how they can find an accurate system for the pro's that will also be workable accurately in the club play environment.
Do you think the current service calling system even though not accurate for pro's shows more consideration to club than the proposed system? Have you got a solution that would be more usable for club and also accurate for the pro level?

Unfortunately in this case i think the proposed system can only be classed as poor if there is a better solution, not on how many benefit from it.

[Gollum]

Do you think the current service calling system even though not accurate for pro's shows more consideration to club than the proposed system?

Yes. I think it's more practical for club play than the proposed system. And I also think it is sufficiently accurate for the pros too -- although the proposed system would likely be more accurate.

Then again, I have no experience of the proposed system, so I don't want to dismiss it out of hand. The service laws have always been the most awkward part of the rules, so it's good that the BWF is trying to make them work better.

Have you got a solution that would be more usable for club and also accurate for the pro level?

No. But I don't see why they must use exactly the same rules. If the proposed rule turns out to be impractical at club play, I would like to see the rules acknowledge this by defining different service laws depending on the available officiation.

[craigandy]

Yes. I think it's more practical for club play than the proposed system. And I also think it is sufficiently accurate for the pros too -- although the proposed system would likely be more accurate.

Then again, I have no experience of the proposed system, so I don't want to dismiss it out of hand. The service laws have always been the most awkward part of the rules, so it's good that the BWF is trying to make them work better.




No. But I don't see why they must use exactly the same rules. If the proposed rule turns out to be impractical at club play, I would like to see the rules acknowledge this by defining different service laws depending on the available officiation.

Interesting. Well if you read back in the thread you will see from 5'7 through to 6'2 are still serving from about their lowest rib and only an inch or so between them. I can't see how imaginary lower rib can be better for ruling at club play given we are talking maybe inches diff for new rule. Too small diff to notice, you are more worried looking for sign of a flick coming.

How many service faults were actually given at your club/ league last year? for mine zero and their was a lot, so I can inform you the current/old system does not work at all at club level from what I have experienced. That's 2 different leagues and 3 clubs.

Imo I don't think service is a major problem/advantage in the amateur game and if it is, a quiet word should be enough so he/she does not repeat the following week. If that does not work then the guy/girl is just sad. I can see why the pro's push it given there is money involved/ getting an edge and stuff. It needs to be more accurate at pro level.

[Gollum]

How many service faults were actually given at your club/ league last year?

I rarely see anyone else call service faults, but I do. I also encourage other players to call service faults; bad serving can ruin the game.

I'm not playing matches at the moment (injury), but I have often called bad serves in match play. I usually offer a let to sweeten it, as a fault seems harsh given the lack of an objective judge. Nevertheless this usually stops people playing ridiculous drive serves; and often they lose confidence in their serve, which effectively gives me some free points.

I also call serves in club play, but there are circumstances where I let it slide. Some players genuinely struggle to change their serve, even if they accept it's a fault. When you've been serving the same way for 30 years, it's hard to change.

I find that service faults are rare at higher-standard clubs (although this could vary between clubs). So at a "serious" clubnight, I almost never feel the need to call a serve.

My other context is coaching. I feel responsible for warning players if they are making service faults; I also feel I should encourage fair play, especially among juniors. If the proposed rules go through, I'll need to bring a measuring stick to coaching sessions...

I can never quite take off my coaching hat; so even in a "social" club setting, I may try to educate players. I try to stop short of being an unwanted know-it-all. Sometimes I succeed.

In all these contexts, I still dislike calling service faults because of the possibility I am wrong. With the current system I add a small "margin" to ensure that my call is correct. With the proposed system, I would not feel justified making the call at all, having no visible point of reference.

[craigandy]

Fair enough, for coaching you could bring a piece of string in and tie it the length of the net at the appropriate height for player reference, maybe something similar for player umpired matches could be used at clubs too. This obviously would not be suitable at pro level but they will have a judge.