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  1. #579
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    haha
    i am glad that i can update lin dan walkover data once again
    our greatest god of walkover

  2. #580
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    Just making it more fun, no intention or whatsoever

  3. #581
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    I hope we won't be discussing in the wrong direction again! That there are orders in CBA is not only obvious, it is openly said by LYB and players, and so in many occasions. The reason why it is openly admitted is because it is perfectly legitimate and correct to do so for CBA, in the eyes of this organisation. LYB finds nothing wrong in giving orders, and from his point of view, he is indeed correct. The team matters, and as long as the BWF won't clarify the way badminton works, as a team or as an individual sport, we are bound to see this again and again.
    I do not mean to insult or be offensive to anyone here, it is just our common problem
    Last edited by renbo; 04-19-2013 at 09:26 AM.

  4. #582
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    Regarding LD walk over. There is nothing to gain that an 80% LD beating an 100% WZM or any other top Chinese MS players. It will only destroy their confidence. LD will retire the moment CBA find his heir. Read my post 48 and 50.

  5. #583
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    Yes, all the justification for walkovers and stuff is all very fine, but it must be asked: where's the integrity? Or is badminton forever destined to become a tool?

    Regardless of what a lot of people think, I am now of the firm opinion that LD should announce his retirement without delay. He has nothing to gain by continuing this way, but eventually and very possibly, a lot to lose. It is better that people remember the giant he was than the shadow he will inevitably become.

    There are numerous examples of great and legendary sportsmen in many sports and disciplines who walked away when they could with their dignity intact, and allowed the flow of nature to fill the void, and give an unhindered chance for others to step up and bloom. Life presents many more and often more demanding and significant issues than virtual enslavement to a sport. LD needs to venture out into life now.

  6. #584
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    As much as I like watching LD play, I begin to think like you Cobalt! Play or do not play, but enough in between! Like a zombie! Perhaps LD should do like LHI.

  7. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Yes, all the justification for walkovers and stuff is all very fine, but it must be asked: where's the integrity? Or is badminton forever destined to become a tool?

    Regardless of what a lot of people think, I am now of the firm opinion that LD should announce his retirement without delay. He has nothing to gain by continuing this way, but eventually and very possibly, a lot to lose. It is better that people remember the giant he was than the shadow he will inevitably become.

    There are numerous examples of great and legendary sportsmen in many sports and disciplines who walked away when they could with their dignity intact, and allowed the flow of nature to fill the void, and give an unhindered chance for others to step up and bloom. Life presents many more and often more demanding and significant issues than virtual enslavement to a sport. LD needs to venture out into life now.
    What is the more respectable route leading to retirement? Do we enjoy watching Taufik Hidayat who keep playing poorly and ended up losing to lower ranked players or Lin Dan, who like to disguise his plan of retiring and he can suddenly retire for good?

  8. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by renbo View Post
    I hope we won't be discussing in the wrong direction again! That there are orders in CBA is not only obvious, it is openly said by LYB and players, and so in many occasions. The reason why it is openly admitted is because it is perfectly legitimate and correct to do so for CBA, in the eyes of this organisation. LYB finds nothing wrong in giving orders, and from his point of view, he is indeed correct. The team matters, and as long as the BWF won't clarify the way badminton works, as a team or as an individual sport, we are bound to see this again and again.
    I do not mean to insult or be offensive to anyone here, it is just our common problem
    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Yes, all the justification for walkovers and stuff is all very fine, but it must be asked: where's the integrity? Or is badminton forever destined to become a tool?
    As renbo pointed out, it is our common problem. Why blame it on LD or CBA? Why not blame it on BWF, whom itself has the power to govern and regulate the sport properly, rightfully and legitimately?

  9. #587
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    Just now i have seen that Lindan has given walkover to his teammate.. Lol. Then why should he need to play here just to give away walkover like this..??

  10. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by Higher View Post
    As renbo pointed out, it is our common problem. Why blame it on LD or CBA? Why not blame it on BWF, whom itself has the power to govern and regulate the sport properly, rightfully and legitimately?
    I agree with renbo; in fact, I had made the very point more than a year ago, and forcefully. However, apportioning "blame" to all and sundry is not going to solve anything. If you think I am "blaming" LD or CBA you are wrong.

    My note about LD's retirement has nothing to do with the larger issue of the future of badminton. Walkovers, withdrawals, etc etc are the symptoms of a malady of incomplete vision, insufficient conviction and opportunistic action.

    There are many aspects to this argument. Ultimately however, we are responsible for our own actions. That is the context of my "integrity" question.

    The BWF may have created the grounds for nationalistic approach to breed and flourish. Some countries find this in alignment with their own philosophies more than others. Situations change however, and responses must change to adapt to the unfolding situation. Time is the gauge. And now, for the CBA, there is the elephant in the room.

  11. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by indrg View Post
    What is the more respectable route leading to retirement? Do we enjoy watching Taufik Hidayat who keep playing poorly and ended up losing to lower ranked players or Lin Dan, who like to disguise his plan of retiring and he can suddenly retire for good?
    LOL! I am a huge fan of TH, and I just hate to see what he has been doing for the past 2 years; it makes me cringe.

    But that is of no comparison with LD's predicament. LD is still a very good player, but his commitment, and his consistency are now clearly questionable. Why wait until the rot sets in? Why not in fact use TH as an example and make a clean break when you're still at the top? In this regard, I cannot see how "disguising" the "plan" can help. In fact this all has more of a feel of uncertainty and confusion. It cannot be good for the morale of many other MS players in the CBA fold.

  12. #590
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    Strange, as if the only acceptable outcome is for Lin Dan to play and beat WZM, any other result will call into question his integrity?! As if his next opponent (which happens to be his colleague,suppose it's a non-CHN player?) would rather play against the 'stronger' (perhaps 'weaker') Lin Dan than Wang Zhengming? Perhaps it's even more acceptable if he had lost to Hu Yun in R2 or Sakai yesterday but conceding a walkover to WZM, for whatever reasons, is simply unacceptable and questionable?

    By focusing on this minor issue and specifically on him,at the same time blowing it out of proportion and making a mountain out of a molehill of it, we seem to conveniently and selectively forget the other non-CHN players who had done something similar before; but,of course, we apply different standards to different players of different nationalities. How did this action of his pose a stumbling block to any other player's career development?

    Let's not be distracted. Lin Dan's greatness is always built on his court artistry,his master class, his indomitable willpower and fighting spirit, his strength of character, his all-conquering winning ways...(I could go on and on). But nothing beats how Lin Dan's illustrious contemporaries regard him - LHI called him"'the perfect shuttler", PG hailed him "the greatest ever" and paid him the highest tribute in his own special way, even his archrival, Lee CW, acknowledged "there is only one Lin Dan".

    For me, I'm grateful that Lin Dan didn't choose to hang up his racquet at this time. Every match,every tournament that he plays from now on is a bonus as long as he gives of his best under the present,changed circumstances.

    True greatness speaks for itself and cannot be easily discredited by any detractors. It can stand the test of time.

  13. #591
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    Moreover,every player has the right to chart his own career and plan his retirement; for the non-independent players, I hope their member associations will take their best interests into account. For any organization,including the BWF, the players are considered their human capital and should be valued as such;therefore, I'd expect any good healthy organization to be people-oriented.

    For Lin Dan, what I'd hate most to see is lackluster,mediocre performances for lack of commitment and proper training. At least, I've read that he's assured us his continuing to compete (he's reluctant to call it a comeback but just taking a temporary break) is genuine and not to idle away his precious time, except that for now he's yet to set any goals for himself while the Rio OG quest is still a long off to talk about it at this stage.

    I'm sure he is fully aware of his opportunity cost, what with all those lucrative commercial offers beckoning him. Frankly, I won't be surprised if he suddenly announces his retirement anytime between now and before the next Olympic qualification cycle.

  14. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Yes, all the justification for walkovers and stuff is all very fine, but it must be asked: where's the integrity? Or is badminton forever destined to become a tool?
    Quote Originally Posted by Higher View Post
    As renbo pointed out, it is our common problem. Why blame it on LD or CBA? Why not blame it on BWF, whom itself has the power to govern and regulate the sport properly, rightfully and legitimately?
    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    I agree with renbo; in fact, I had made the very point more than a year ago, and forcefully. However, apportioning "blame" to all and sundry is not going to solve anything. If you think I am "blaming" LD or CBA you are wrong.

    My note about LD's retirement has nothing to do with the larger issue of the future of badminton. Walkovers, withdrawals, etc etc are the symptoms of a malady of incomplete vision, insufficient conviction and opportunistic action.

    There are many aspects to this argument. Ultimately however, we are responsible for our own actions. That is the context of my "integrity" question.

    The BWF may have created the grounds for nationalistic approach to breed and flourish. Some countries find this in alignment with their own philosophies more than others. Situations change however, and responses must change to adapt to the unfolding situation. Time is the gauge. And now, for the CBA, there is the elephant in the room.
    Actually, I did not refer you who were "blaming" in my post, that "blaming" refer to some previous posts who seems blatantly to blame LD alone to "do it again and again". That I quoted your post which make the impression. My apology for that.

  15. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpion1 View Post
    Just now i have seen that Lindan has given walkover to his teammate.. Lol. Then why should he need to play here just to give away walkover like this..??
    I think most of us don't know the true reason or exact answer.

    So you may choose whatever possibilities you prefer:
    1. LD quit the match because of injury (see post #555).
    2. Team orders.
    3. BWF allows it to happen.

    If none of those satisfy your question, please do one (or more) of the following:
    1. do comprehensive research on badminton world.
    2. send an email to CBA ask your question.
    3. send an email to BWF ask your question.
    4. get used to it as long as BWF can't make a proper job.

  16. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin L View Post

    By focusing on this minor issue and specifically on him,at the same time blowing it out of proportion and making a mountain out of a molehill of it, we seem to conveniently and selectively forget the other non-CHN players who had done something similar before; but,of course, we apply different standards to different players of different nationalities. How did this action of his pose a stumbling block to any other player's career development?
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin L View Post
    True greatness speaks for itself and cannot be easily discredited by any detractors. It can stand the test of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin L View Post
    Moreover,every player has the right to chart his own career and plan his retirement; for the non-independent players, I hope their member associations will take their best interests into account. For any organization,including the BWF, the players are considered their human capital and should be valued as such;therefore, I'd expect any good healthy organization to be people-oriented.
    Agree.......

  17. #595
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    Justin. Master of the superflous superlative. Of the convenient interpretation.

    ...Strange, as if the only acceptable outcome is for Lin Dan to play and beat WZM, any other result will call into question his integrity?!
    Read my post carefully; it's in plain English. I am not calling specifically, LD's integrity into question. It's in fact, the integrity of all who have anything to do with creating a weak system, and manipulating that system. And offering justifications. Please don't re-interpret my words for the benefit of the readers. If you are somewhat confused by my words, feel free to ask.

    Your entire second paragraph is out of context and presents a very narrow-minded view born of probably, a siege mentality. Integrity in sport is not a "minor issue" and for that matter, your typical knee-jerk reaction:
    we seem to conveniently and selectively forget the other non-CHN players who had done something similar before
    ...speaks volumes as an antithesis of the point I made: ultimately, we are all responsible for our actions. Perhaps that is not something you'd prefer?

    Your third paragraph...
    Let's not be distracted.
    ...is even more illustrative of your enthusiasm for not just deflecting a point (or post) that is not to your personal liking, but instructing all other members on what their priorities should be! Of course, we thank you for informing us that LD is one of the greatest players of all time - that little nugget may have missed our attention completely!

    I fully agree with you that...
    True greatness speaks for itself and cannot be easily discredited by any detractors. It can stand the test of time.
    In that case, you can rest assured that Lin Dan doesn't need you to champion his cause.

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