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  1. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbswansea View Post
    Kwun as you seem to be like a Yoda figure on here, is the ASE a good machine for a beginner stringer who isn't really looking to make anything other than pocket money on stringing?
    A good machine, the ASE indeed is.

  2. #53
    Regular Member dbswansea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yan.v View Post
    A good machine, the ASE indeed is.
    Even as the cheapest available?

  3. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbswansea View Post
    Even as the cheapest available?
    It's not the cheapest available machine, but it is a very good quality/price machine.

    Kwun used that machine for a long time and even modded it to add an electronic tensionner to it.

    From what I've seen and read, it is much better than comparable machines like the Eagnas ST-250.

    It is definitely a good machine for casual stringing and if you charge something for every string job you do for your friends, you will get your investment back decently fast.

  4. #55
    Regular Member dbswansea's Avatar
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    My mistake, I was looking at the pros pro shuttle express.

  5. #56
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbswansea View Post
    Kwun as you seem to be like a Yoda figure on here, is the ASE a good machine for a beginner stringer who isn't really looking to make anything other than pocket money on stringing?
    totally. i did that for 3 years. went from 2 rackets per month to up to 30 per month. but i'd also recommend adding a WISE tension head at one point.

  6. #57
    Regular Member dbswansea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    totally. i did that for 3 years. went from 2 rackets per month to up to 30 per month. but i'd also recommend adding a WISE tension head at one point.
    Thanks, is the Pro's Pro Shuttle Express the same machine or have I got my wires crossed?

  7. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbswansea View Post
    Thanks, is the Pro's Pro Shuttle Express the same machine or have I got my wires crossed?
    They are very similar, but got some differences.

    I think the main difference is that the ASE has "better" North/South supports and seems to be much harder to find.

    I'm saying "better" because I've never tried the system that's on the PSE (screw down system), but it seems like it would be a hassle without much benefit.

  8. #59
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbswansea View Post
    Thanks, is the Pro's Pro Shuttle Express the same machine or have I got my wires crossed?
    Quote Originally Posted by yan.v View Post
    They are very similar, but got some differences.

    I think the main difference is that the ASE has "better" North/South supports and seems to be much harder to find.

    I'm saying "better" because I've never tried the system that's on the PSE (screw down system), but it seems like it would be a hassle without much benefit.
    the other difference is that the ASE has a longer "body", the main metal plate. it allows easier fit of the WISE if you decide to get one later.

  9. #60
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Although I haven't touched one, from what I've seen it's actually superior to some machines that are used by local club stringers (not professionals, nor do they claim to be). The downside is the lack of stationary clamps, which will make some parts of the stringing process tricky (how did you clamp the 2nd last main, kwun?), and without modding, the dropweight system (although that IS better than some of the crap used by 'professionals' around here, some actually use crank machines and don't adjust for the tension loss compared to a ECP stringjob).

    Anyhow, it should indeed be sufficient for the first steps in stringing and a low amount of string jobs for friends (I think more than 5 a week would be bothersome).

  10. #61
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    Why ask why? Just do it.
    Last edited by silentheart; 03-23-2013 at 05:27 PM.

  11. #62
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    I've been experimenting with different ratios. More recently I've been doing cross = main + 5%. My reasoning is that even though crosses have less string density (crosses are further apart from eachother than mains) compared to mains, they also have shorter overall length compared to mains. Without going into the math as to why length and density affect tension on the stringbed (this can be searched on the forum), I felt that the difference in density between mains and crosses is more important than the difference in length between mains and crosses. Which means, I wanted crosses to be strung at a higher tension, but how much more tension?

    I chose 5% higher cross tension than main because I feel the difference in string density is more important than the difference in string length, but not enough to warrant a 10% increase in crosses. That is, the string density of the crosses is more spaced and in order for the crosses to be closer to the tension on the mains it would require a 5% increase or so.

    As for the shape, it didn't really matter for me because my side supports (6-point support machine) are more than enough and the extra 5% increase actually pulls the sides in just a little bit, though not as much as 10% of course.

    Anyway, that's just what I've been experimenting with.

  12. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaaam View Post
    I've been experimenting with different ratios. More recently I've been doing cross = main + 5%. My reasoning is that even though crosses have less string density (crosses are further apart from eachother than mains) compared to mains, they also have shorter overall length compared to mains. Without going into the math as to why length and density affect tension on the stringbed (this can be searched on the forum), I felt that the difference in density between mains and crosses is more important than the difference in length between mains and crosses. Which means, I wanted crosses to be strung at a higher tension, but how much more tension?

    I chose 5% higher cross tension than main because I feel the difference in string density is more important than the difference in string length, but not enough to warrant a 10% increase in crosses. That is, the string density of the crosses is more spaced and in order for the crosses to be closer to the tension on the mains it would require a 5% increase or so.

    As for the shape, it didn't really matter for me because my side supports (6-point support machine) are more than enough and the extra 5% increase actually pulls the sides in just a little bit, though not as much as 10% of course.

    Anyway, that's just what I've been experimenting with.
    With your explanation, it make sense all the way till the point what would you do with 22x22 pattern vs 22x21 pattern? Thanks.

  13. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentheart View Post
    With your explanation, it make sense all the way till the point what would you do with 22x22 pattern vs 22x21 pattern? Thanks.
    If mains were 22, I would do 22x23. If someone wanted 22 lbs. I would do 21x22. I'm still experimenting with this myself so I haven't done it for many customers. Most people are more familiar with the 10% rule, so for 22 lbs. I would do 21x23.

    I haven't tried crosses being less than mains before, my concern would be to avoid distorting (in case side supports weren't tight enough) the frame.

    I feel that if companies recommend 10% rule, there probably won't be much of an advantage to playing with tensions this much.

    I'm curious to try proportional stringing as well and seeing how that goes.

  14. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaaam View Post
    If mains were 22, I would do 22x23. If someone wanted 22 lbs. I would do 21x22. I'm still experimenting with this myself so I haven't done it for many customers. Most people are more familiar with the 10% rule, so for 22 lbs. I would do 21x23.

    I haven't tried crosses being less than mains before, my concern would be to avoid distorting (in case side supports weren't tight enough) the frame.

    I feel that if companies recommend 10% rule, there probably won't be much of an advantage to playing with tensions this much.

    I'm curious to try proportional stringing as well and seeing how that goes.
    Based on this thread, that the combination of machine, supports and tensioner play a large influence to how much more/less tension that is needed for the cross.

    That is where the ability of the stringer separates the good stringers from the bad in recognizing and adjusting in order to achieve a consistent quality in tension and minimize distortion.

    I've had to go through this when i switched from a drop weight stringway -> gamma 6004 with crank -> gamma 6004 with chudek support and wise 2086.

    stringway (internal supports + hold down): 10% rule for cross
    gamma 6004 crank: 10 % rule for cross
    gamma 6004 + chudek + wise: proportional for cross (same main tension for first 2 crosses, increase by one pound to next 2 crosses, increase to full 10% for remaining crosses)

    All top down. I'm sure i'd have to change my approach if i were to switch machines, supports or tensioners.

    I forgot to add that the stretchiness of the string will also play a factor. So many variables...that's what makes stringing fun =)

  15. #66
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthHowie View Post
    gamma 6004 + chudek + wise: proportional for cross (same main tension for first 2 crosses, increase by one pound to next 2 crosses, increase to full 10% for remaining crosses)
    i am glad we come to the very similar conclusion given our machines are practically siblings.

    I forgot to add that the stretchiness of the string will also play a factor. So many variables...that's what makes stringing fun =)
    i agree. every worthy stringer should do this exercise to determine the optimal tensioning pattern for their machine and technique. and never to settle, keep experimenting even if you think "the best" has been reached. i believe the range of the optimal setting is rather narrow.

  16. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    i am glad we come to the very similar conclusion given our machines are practically siblings.



    i agree. every worthy stringer should do this exercise to determine the optimal tensioning pattern for their machine and technique. and never to settle, keep experimenting even if you think "the best" has been reached. i believe the range of the optimal setting is rather narrow.
    In the short period that I've been stringing (25 rackets), I've experimented between equal tension between main and cross, +5% on cross, +10% on cross, and proportional. Tomorrow I will finally get to play with proportional. But as DarthHowie said, there are so many variables that for me, the typical +10% has worked best in terms of feel and shape; I recently noticed that with +5% only, the bottom of the racket is just ever so slightly wider than usual, so another option has opened up for me in which I do +10% on bottom 11 crosses then +5% throughout (I string rackets 22mains x 22crosses instead of 22x21).
    Last edited by phaaam; 03-30-2013 at 04:26 AM.

  17. #68
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    oooh how fun. I work with a Klippermate and do approx 15 rackets per month over the last year. I think I'll start experimenting with this and logging my findings.
    Let me know if anyone has experiment set up suggestions.
    Cheers all

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