Head weight: an easier, simpler appoximation of swing weight

[Licin]

i loved the mx80 when i first got it, but the extra stiff shaft started causing me shoulder pain... so yep, now the mx70 is one of my faves, next to the revelation and precision pro and xp70.

somehow my preference is also towards fast but solid aero frames ... so the voltrics and braveswords didn't work out for me, as they were either too much head wt and slow, or too little head wt and lack heft and substance on strike.

yep... i'm pretty picky, i know...

That is very me...
I will contact you for advices, if i wanna buy a new racket
May i conclude, for now your most favorite, current go to racket is the Revelation ?

[Licin]

i loved the mx80 when i first got it, but the extra stiff shaft started causing me shoulder pain... so yep, now the mx70 is one of my faves, next to the revelation and precision pro and xp70.

somehow my preference is also towards fast but solid aero frames ... so the voltrics and braveswords didn't work out for me, as they were either too much head wt and slow, or too little head wt and lack heft and substance on strike.

yep... i'm pretty picky, i know...

That is very me...
I will contact you for advices, if i wanna buy a new racket
May i conclude, for now your most favorite, current go to racket is the Revelation ?

[visor]

That is very me will contact you for advices, if i wanna buy a new racket
May i conclude, for now your most favorite, current go to racket is the Revelation ?

Nice to know someone with the same tastes . The Revelation and P Pro are both faves. Revelation if I'm lazy and tired because of the flexier shaft, and the P Pro when I feel stronger or want more accuracy. And the good thing is both have the same swing wts.

[cobalt]

@Licin so, the AT700 is not on your favourites shortlist anymore?

[Licin]

@Licin so, the AT700 is not on your favourites shortlist anymore?

Haha, you remember that i was desperately want to play with old AT700. I managed to find it . Our fellow BCer, clawhammers, sold his to me, i have not strung it though

[Licin]

Nice to know someone with the same tastes . The Revelation and P Pro are both faves. Revelation if I'm lazy and tired because of the flexier shaft, and the P Pro when I feel stronger or want more accuracy. And the good thing is both have the same swing wts.

Thanks for the reply, visor..

[visor]

I wonder what range of head weights you have encountered so far? For lack of a more accurate scale everything I tested yesterday weighs in at either 38gr. unstrung or 42gr. strung, apart from a 95gr. Aerotus 80 weighing in at 39gr. Only one other hovering between 39 and 38 before settling on 38gr.
Will re-do it again some time, was just testing if I got weights in your ranges . To be continued in the other thread of course ... Then again they were all heavy 3U's in at most a bp range of 10mm apart (Ti-10 II to AT700 I)
Ah I see the 37.8 here was strung

@demolidor

These are my data points accumulated on the rackets I've owned over the past 2 years.

Racket Bare wt Bare head wt Playing wt Play head wt Playing bp Trinity2 84.7g 36.2g 94.5g 39.9g 291mm Trinity2 83.9g 35.6g 93.7g 39.3g 291mm TrinityPro 86.0g 38.4g 95.8g 42.1g 295mm MX80 85.1g 37.6g 94.9g 41.3g 293mm MX70 87.3g 38.6g 97.0g 42.3g 295mm MX70 84.3g 38.0g 94.0g 41.7g 296mm MX60 87.1g 38.3g 96.6g 42.0g 295mm MX80 friend1 89.5g 39.9g 43.6g MX80 friend2 88.4g 38.9g 42.6g MX80 friend3 90.0g 40.1g 43.8g BS12 86.7g 37.8g 96.5g 41.2g 286mm SW30 85.1g 37.4g 94.8g 41.1g 292mm VT80 82.8g 38.7g 92.5g 42.4g 305mm VTZF 82.1g 38.6g 91.8g 42.3g 307mm VTZF friend 86.5g 40.4g 44.1g PrecisionPro1 86.9g 37.4g 96.2g 41.1g 289mm PrecisionPro2 87.2g 38.9g 96.5g 42.2g 294mm PrecisionPro3 88.0g 38.7g 97.4g 42.0g 292mm PrecisionPro4 87.6g 38.3g 96.9g 41.6g 291mm Revelation1 86.6g 37.1g 96.2g 40.4g 285mm Revelation2 88.0g 38.3g 97.3g 41.6g 291mm Revelation friend 87.9g 38.9g 42.6g RKEP Pro9000 85.5g 37.8g 95.2g 41.5g 292mm RKEP Pro9000 85.7g 37.7g 95.4g 41.4g 291mm RKEP XP70 84.2g 37.7g 93.5g 41.0g 293mm

Bare = no string, no overgrip
Playing = string and grip
Grip is RKEP Elite G09 white overgrip


As mentioned before, the white grip adds 0.7g,
VS850 and ZM67 adds 3.0g,
ZM65 adds 2.8g, and
ZM62 adds 2.6g to the head weight.

[Licin]

I am so intrigued to buy the precision pro...... Since visor have 4 of those..
Still considering between Precision pro vs VTZF4U, MX804U, & 700PR 4U

[visor]

I am so intrigued to buy the precision pro...... Since visor have 4 of those..
Still considering between Precision pro vs VTZF4U, MX804U, & 700PR 4U

@Licin : My favorite was PPro3, but unfortunately I killed it in a clash when it was only 4 weeks old. :cry: So now #4 is the replacement, but just a tad less oomph than #3.

I'm currently enjoying the Revelation #2 which was chosen to have the exact same head wt as PPro3 . Has tad better feel for touch shots, eg excellent drops, net play, pushes, brushes. This makes it amazing for service and return in doubles games. Also easy power from slightly flexier shaft, making it great for defence, deep shots and cracking smashes when you need it. Only downside is drives are tad slower and less precise due to flexier shaft.

MX80 too stiff, causing shoulder pain. MX70 is better, more user friendly.

As you can see, my preference for doubles is still for powerful but aerodynamic frames. The VT80 and VTZF are great for singles games, but there's too much head wt there for me for fast doubles play and the non aero frame is noticeably slower still when compared to aero frame of the same head wt. Eg. my 3U MX70 vs. my 4U VZTF in that table above. Both bare and playing head wt are exactly the same, but the MX70 swings faster.

[Licin]

@visor : i am really sorry for your lost in PPro3. 4 weeks old is just too fast. Glad that you have found its substitute.

Thanks a lot for your explanation above, It is really informative. Additionally your table are providing very useful facts. I have believed and certainly agree that head weight & playing weight are straightforward when we about to buy a racket, it is like a pin pointer. For example, if we are quite comfortable using 4U VTZF, and we want to buy a racket from Victor, we might choose Victor racket from 4U category, while from your data and supported by your experience 4U VTZF are more similar to 3U MX70 rather than 4U MX70. Have we not measure our racket preference specs, we might end up buy a wrong racket.

[visor]

Racket Bare wt Bare head wt Playing wt Play head wt Playing bp Calculated play bp* Trinity2 84.7g 36.2g 94.5g 39.9g 291mm 285mm Trinity2 83.9g 35.6g 93.7g 39.3g 291mm 283mm TrinityPro 86.0g 38.4g 95.8g 42.1g 295mm 296mm MX80 85.1g 37.6g 94.9g 41.3g 293mm 294mm MX70 87.3g 38.6g 97.0g 42.3g 295mm 294mm MX70 84.3g 38.0g 94.0g 41.7g 296mm 299mm MX60 87.1g 38.3g 96.6g 42.0g 295mm 294mm MX80 friend1 89.5g 39.9g 43.6g MX80 friend2 88.4g 38.9g 42.6g MX80 friend3 90.0g 40.1g 43.8g BS12 86.7g 37.8g 96.5g 41.2g 286mm 288mm SW30 85.1g 37.4g 94.8g 41.1g 292mm 293mm VT80 82.8g 38.7g 92.5g 42.4g 305mm 309mm VTZF 82.1g 38.6g 91.8g 42.3g 307mm 311mm VTZF friend 86.5g 40.4g 44.1g PrecisionPro1 86.9g 37.4g 96.2g 41.1g 289mm 288mm PrecisionPro2 87.2g 38.9g 96.5g 42.2g 294mm 295mm PrecisionPro3 88.0g 38.7g 97.4g 42.0g 292mm 291mm PrecisionPro4 87.6g 38.3g 96.9g 41.6g 291mm 290mm Revelation1 86.6g 37.1g 96.2g 40.4g 285mm 284mm Revelation2 88.0g 38.3g 97.3g 41.6g 291mm 289mm Revelation friend 87.9g 38.9g 42.6g RKEP Pro9000 85.5g 37.8g 95.2g 41.5g 292mm 294mm RKEP Pro9000 85.7g 37.7g 95.4g 41.4g 291mm 293mm RKEP XP70 84.2g 37.7g 93.5g 41.0g 293mm 296mm Arc FB 72.8g 32.6g Arc 11 86.5g 38.1g

While entering some data for the ArcFB and Arc11 that I measured at the store today, I realized an interesting correlation that I hadn't notice before. In retrospect, it is very obvious and I don't know why I didn't see it before.



Specifically, I noticed that the head wt to total wt ratio is directly proportional to the balance point bp. As such:

Calculated Bp = (Head wt / Total wt) x (Racket length ie. 675mm)

And this works for both bare unstrung ungripped racket and also strung and gripped racket ready to play.



Knowing this relationship, then it's possible to derive head wt without actually going thru the trouble of weighing it using my method on the first page, as long as you measure bp and total wt. Hence:

Calculated Head wt = (Bp / 675mm) x Total wt



The calculated data is off a tad from the measured data somehow. Likely due to slight inaccuracies in my weighing. The two Trinity 2's are off because I had applied athlete's tape on the frame and had measured bp but forgot to update the new weights before selling them. And the Voltrics are way off probably because the frame design places all the weight at the top, thus skewing the calculated bp to the high side.

But other than that, most of the other rackets are only off by 1-2mm in bp between measure and calculated, which is pretty darn good!

So there you have it! What do you think?

Certainly makes you want to buy a digital scale and measure your bp if you seriously want to get a racket with a certain swing/head wt!

[Licin]

@visor
This is really interesting. You are a really meticulous person to be able to find that correlation while just updating your data. Well i am actually a little bit intrigued to buy a digital scale since i want to concentrate to use one or two type of rackets only.

Thanks for the information, visor.

[visor]

@Licin
Its the best $20 you'll spend on Amazon.


@kwun @vajrasattva @demolidor @cobalt @Fidget
What do you fellas think of the above equations re head wt and bp?

[wning]

i loved the mx80 when i first got it, but the extra stiff shaft started causing me shoulder pain... so yep, now the mx70 is one of my faves, next to the revelation and precision pro and xp70.

somehow my preference is also towards fast but solid aero frames ... so the voltrics and braveswords didn't work out for me, as they were either too much head wt and slow, or too little head wt and lack heft and substance on strike.

yep... i'm pretty picky, i know...

Hey Visor,
I had a PPRO and wonder if the Revelation play the same, in stiffness and power. Loved the way PPRO return smash and drive though had trouble getting power from smash (maybe a bit too stiff) I am thinking about the MX-70, MX-60 or the new Revelation. thanks

[visor]

Hey Visor,
I had a PPRO and wonder if the Revelation play the same, in stiffness and power. Loved the way PPRO return smash and drive though had trouble getting power from smash (maybe a bit too stiff) I am thinking about the MX-70, MX-60 or the new Revelation. thanks

If you haven't yet, you could try lowering tension 1-2 lbs to mitigate shaft stiffness of the P Pro. Me I'm finding the Rev a tad too flexy for my swing... I'm not yet used to how it bends and unbending with my strokes. Hence I'm preferring the xp70 and P Pro still.

[wning]

If you haven't yet, you could try lowering tension 1-2 lbs to mitigate shaft stiffness of the P Pro. Me I'm finding the Rev a tad too flexy for my swing... I'm not yet used to how it bends and unbending with my strokes. Hence I'm preferring the xp70 and P Pro still.

Thanks, so the Rev. is like the MX-70 is term of stiffness? I still use my AT-700 I though it's not the best the XD and MD. I love the BS-12N but need a bit more power and stiffness.

[visor]

^^ stiffness: mx80 > mx70 > p pro > rev = xp70