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    Default Deceptive serves - Legal or not?

    I was playing in a junior doubles competition a couple of weeks ago, and one of my opponents was preparing for an underarm forehand serve, aiming for the back of the court; he pulled his racket back, and the stopped, turned his body for a short flick serve and the gently flicked it forward for a flick serve; which sent me scrambling towards the net to return it. My thoughts turned immediately to the legality of the serve, and my teacher thought it was perfectly legal.

    So, is it or not? I think the main possible rule breach would be rules 9.1.1 and 9.2:
    9.1 In a correct service,
    9.1.1 neither side shall cause undue delay to the delivery of the service once the server and the
    receiver are ready for the service. On completion of the backward movement of serverís
    racket head, any delay in the start of the service (Law 9.2), shall be considered to be an
    undue delay;
    9.2 Once the players are ready for the service, the first forward movement of the serverís racket head
    shall be the start of the service.
    So, what are your opinions?

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    what is a 'short flick serve'? Do you mean a backhand low serve?

    please see here for correct vernacular.
    http://www.badmintonbible.com/articl...erve-types.php

    I would say the serve described was probably illegal. How did he turn his body without moving his feet? That would be another service fault.

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    As long as he isn't pulling back the racket again ie double motion i think it's legal. Preparing for a flickserve and then slowing down to do a short is perfectly fine. But if say he stops mid motion for a while and causes the opponent to lose balance, I believe the service should be redone, but perhaps out of courtesy. Im not an umpire though and it was a bit unclear from your explanation

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordrogue View Post
    As long as he isn't pulling back the racket again ie double motion i think it's legal. Preparing for a flickserve and then slowing down to do a short is perfectly fine. But if say he stops mid motion for a while and causes the opponent to lose balance, I believe the service should be redone, but perhaps out of courtesy. Im not an umpire though and it was a bit unclear from your explanation
    In singles, I do sneak a few points by pretending to do a high serve but slowing down at the last moment to make a short serve as is described by lordrogue.

    I do agree the OP's description is a bit unclear -a flick serve is a shot that is looks like a short serve to the front of the court but suddenly made to go higher and then over the opponent to the back of the court. A "short flick serve" is a flick serve that is not going to the back of the court. Thus the opponent has a very good opportunity to smash it back into one's own face.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    what is a 'short flick serve'? Do you mean a backhand low serve?

    please see here for correct vernacular.
    http://www.badmintonbible.com/articl...erve-types.php

    I would say the serve described was probably illegal. How did he turn his body without moving his feet? That would be another service fault.
    He moved his feet; so it is a fault. Thanks for the link as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by lordrogue View Post
    As long as he isn't pulling back the racket again ie double motion i think it's legal. Preparing for a flickserve and then slowing down to do a short is perfectly fine. But if say he stops mid motion for a while and causes the opponent to lose balance, I believe the service should be redone, but perhaps out of courtesy. Im not an umpire though and it was a bit unclear from your explanation
    Yeah; my explanation probably wasn't the clearest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    In singles, I do sneak a few points by pretending to do a high serve but slowing down at the last moment to make a short serve as is described by lordrogue.

    I do agree the OP's description is a bit unclear -a flick serve is a shot that is looks like a short serve to the front of the court but suddenly made to go higher and then over the opponent to the back of the court. A "short flick serve" is a flick serve that is not going to the back of the court. Thus the opponent has a very good opportunity to smash it back into one's own face.
    By 'underarm forehand serve', I mean a high serve and by 'short flick serve' I mean a low serve. Hope that cleared things up.

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    Your opponent can learn from Cheung.

    It is possible to pretend to do that serve (forehand high) and then suddenly change to tap it gently low over the net, without being illegal.

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    Default who's on fault?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjCo-...JCOYDw&index=6

    @ 4:42, Arvind serves to Andre.
    Umpire called "fault" on Andre for moving his feet before the service started by Arvind.

    Does the service judge also play a part on this rule?

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    service judge is supposed to watch the server, while the umpire is supposed to watch the receiver.

    that's why the umpire called fault on the receiver and not the service judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agile_Monkey View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjCo-...JCOYDw&index=6

    @ 4:42, Arvind serves to Andre.
    Umpire called "fault" on Andre for moving his feet before the service started by Arvind.

    Does the service judge also play a part on this rule?
    As kwun stated above.

    I think that was a bad call though. Yes, Andre moved his foot, but within legal means. He only 'tip toed', therefore some part of both feet is still remaining in contact with the ground making it legal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CantSmashThis View Post
    As kwun stated above.

    I think that was a bad call though. Yes, Andre moved his foot, but within legal means. He only 'tip toed', therefore some part of both feet is still remaining in contact with the ground making it legal.
    I've noticed at the recent Australian Open that the umpires have made a few of these receiver calls that were in bad judgment. Really, how can the umpire be absolutely sure he can see/hear the server serve first in order to judge whether the receiver had moved too soon? Next to some of the subjective service faults above the waist, this one also sorely needs updating... perhaps with player challenge via instant replay.

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    Regular Member ChubbyCheshire's Avatar
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    If the server changed from forehand to backhand or vice versa, then that movement would mean the serve had commenced, so if it was not in a single movement - which is unlikely as that is quite difficult to do - it would be a foul.

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