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  1. #18
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    here are my contribution:

    racket, string, tension, frequency

    NS9900 BG80 23 1046
    ARC9 BG80 22 1016
    Vapour Trail Tour ZM62 22 1137
    AT700 BG80 26 1135
    ARC10 ZM62 23.5 1171
    ARC10 ZM62 21.5 1137
    Trinity 2 BG85 21 1025
    ARC7 Zymax 67 24 1101
    AB2000 BG85 24 1151
    NS9900 BG80 24 1123
    ARC10 ZM62 27 1296
    Ti-10 gen3 ZM62 26 1272
    Precision ZM62 27 1243
    Precision ZM62 27 1243
    AT700 ZM62 27 1279
    NS9900 BG80 24 1121
    Ti-10 gen3 Zymax 67 26 1167
    ARC9 BG80 24 1111
    ARC7 Zymax 67 24 1127
    Power Energy Speed 99931 ZM62 26 1237
    ARC10 Zymax 65 27 1206
    BLX Vertex ZM62 24 1168
    Spira 21 ZM62 27 1243
    Spira 21 ZM62 27 1223
    ARC9 BG65Ti 24 1114
    Spira 21 Zymax 67 26.5 1171
    ARC10 BG80 25 1127
    ARC9 BG80 24 1126
    Ultra Pro ZM62 25.5 1182
    ARC10 Zymax 62PT 26 1228
    ARC10 ZM62 26 1228
    ARC10 Zymax 62PT 25.3 1201
    Ultra Pro ZM62 23 1182
    ARC10 ZM62 24 1168
    ARC10 ZM62 24 1168
    AT900P BG80 29 1229
    AT900T BG80 26 1169
    ARC10 Zymax 67PT 27 1128
    ARC10 ZM62 26.5 1241
    ARC9 BG80 24 1117
    ARC9 BG80 24 1127
    ARC10 BG66UM 26 1244
    AT700 ZM62 27 1254
    ARC10 X-3137 26 1135
    BS09 ZM62 27 1264
    Woven 10i Zymax 67 25 1151
    ARC9 BG80 25 1153
    ARC10 BG80 24 1112
    ARC9 BG80 25 1164
    AT700 ZM62 27 1262
    BS09 ZM62 26 1216
    Woven 10i ZM62 24 1172
    AT300 BG65 21 1000
    BS10 ZM62 25 1185
    SW35 ZM62 25 1196
    BS10 VS850 25 1168
    ARC9 BG65Ti 24 1088
    AT700 ZM62 27 1251
    ARC9FL BG66UM 25 1250
    Ryogo Issen VS850 28 1224
    SW35 BG66UM 26 1265
    Woven 10i BG65 24 1089
    Ti-10 gen1 BG80 23 1072
    ARC10 BG66M 25 1238
    ARC10 BG66UM 25 1233
    ARC9FL BG66UM 25 1202
    Ti-10 gen3 BG80 26 1134
    ARC10 BG80 24 1087
    ARC10 X-3136 25 1153
    ArteryTec99 BG80 23 1084
    NS7700 BG80 24 1110
    Ultra Pro VS850 25 1156
    ARC9 BG80 24 1153
    MX80 VS850 25 1150
    ARC9 BG80 25 1125
    ARC7 Zymax 67 24 1159
    NS9900 BG80 24.2 1141
    ARC7 Zymax 67 24 1150
    JSmash Alpha 1 BG80 22 1075
    ARC10 Polyfibre Explosion B6 24 1138
    ARC10 BG65 24 1054
    NS9900 BG65 25 1124
    MP29 BG80 21 1047
    AT700 BG80 24 1060
    NS7000 BG80 21 1030
    Ryogo Issen X-3136 28 1200
    Trinity Pro VS850 25 1200
    AT250 LTD BG66UM 25 1236
    NS9900 BG66UM 24 1186
    ARC9FL BG66UM 25 1210
    ARC9 VS850 26 1219
    ARC9 VS850 26 1187
    MX80 VS850 25 1148
    ARC9 VS850 26 1187
    ARC9 Polyfibre Explosion B6 29.2 1283
    SW35 VS850 29.4 1220
    SW35 VS850 29.4 1220
    NS9000 BG85 27 1245
    ARC10 PG BG80 27 1182
    Ti10 BG80 27 1179
    MP99 BG80 27 1181
    ARC-Z BG80 26.5 1210
    900P BG80 26 1160
    900P BG80 24 1126
    Jsmash 9004 NBG98 22 1151
    Millenium 6170 BG85 26 1200
    SW37 VS850 27 1168

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  3. #19
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    @kwun

    WHOA!!

    Those are measured after tension stabilized, not immediately after stringing, I presume?

  4. #20
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    @kwun

    WHOA!!

    Those are measured after tension stabilized, not immediately after stringing, I presume?
    sorry. as these are clients' rackets, they are measure right after stringing.

  5. #21
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    it is hard to find a lot of tension stabilized data points. mainly because i don't always get to see the client again at the appropriate time after the racket is strung. if i use my own racket, then the sample size will be very small.

    and also the tension loss is gradual and continuous until the string snaps, it is hard to pin point exactly the equivalent moment in the decay curve to measure the frequency. right after stringing is more reliable imho.

  6. #22
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    [QUOTE =kwun;2048344]sorry. as these are clients' rackets, they are measure right after stringing. [/QUOTE]
    Nooooooooo!
    That's
    too bad... as the frequency will drop another 50-100 Hz after stringing before stabilizing.

  7. #23
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    it is hard to find a lot of tension stabilized data points. mainly because i don't always get to see the client again at the appropriate time after the racket is strung. if i use my own racket, then the sample size will be very small.

    and also the tension loss is gradual and continuous until the string snaps, it is hard to pin point exactly the equivalent moment in the decay curve to measure the frequency. right after stringing is more reliable imho.
    Sorry, kwun
    but I've seen the frequency drop 50 Hz 1 hr after stringing, then another 50 Hz after 1 day, then another 50 Hz over the next few days before plateauing... all this without playing with it!


    For consistency and repeatability purposes, I'd much rather measure at the plateau phase (even though there is still a slight gradual decay from playing and string creep) than the initial steep drop phase where a few hours make a huge difference.

  8. #24
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Sorry, kwun
    but I've seen the frequency drop 50 Hz 1 hr after stringing, then another 50 Hz after 1 day, then another 50 Hz over the next few days before plateauing... all this without playing with it!


    For consistency and repeatability purposes, I'd much rather measure at the plateau phase (even though there is still a slight gradual decay from playing and string creep) than the initial steep drop phase where a few hours make a huge difference.
    i assume you have seen these graphs from a previous thread:



    this is the thread:

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...-(maybe)/page2

    yes. it does look like it plateaus, but if you look at the (first) plateau, it is not flat, even over time, it is still dropping.

    assuming unused, it will eventually stop, but we do use the racket and each time used it will get a big bump down. the question then is where do we sample our data point?

  9. #25
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    i think ideally yes, we should let it sit for a week or so and measure where it eventually plateaus. but that's unpractical as we can only get many data points if we use clients' rackets and most clients won't wait around for so long.

  10. #26
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    @kwun

    Yes, thanks for pulling that graph up... that was the one I was thinking about.

    So, as you see, I'd much rather have quality data points, than quantity.

    I believe that since frequency is a reflection of tension, then some time must be given to allow it to stabilize before we can have any meaningful measurements. After all, tension (and our indirect measurement of it) will affect how the string performs in repulsion, power, touch, control, so we want to make it as reproducible as possible from person to person across the world.

  11. #27
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    i agree on quality over quantity.

    but i have doubts on the exact condition required to achieve that quality.

    as you can see from the graph i obtained through an actual racket, with 70 hours of stringing, the tension/frequency seems to have settled on around 1135Hz level. at this state, there are no external force acting on the racket. so it will eventually reach the equilibrium point of ~1135Hz.

    however, at around 70 hours, i brought the racket to the gym, now with all the hitting, external forces (stretching) on the strings forced the string into another equilibrium point around 1110Hz.

    i don't believe the racket will reach the 1110Hz equilibrium point if i hadn't brought the racket to play. it would've stayed at around 1135Hz for quite a few weeks. it may reach 1110Hz if left around for months. i suspect so because the internal tension force is not strong enough to shift the equilibrium quickly.


    so what's my point? my point is that we must standardize on how long the racket may stay and whether we should allow it to be played.

    if we really do want it to plateau, i believe we must leave it unplayed otherwise it will reach a different equilibrium/plateau that is not equivalent to the one when we leave the racket unplayed.

    so my suggestion is if we do want it to plateau, leave it for N number of days. we can pick what N would be.

  12. #28
    Regular Member ucantseeme's Avatar
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    SW35 with BG80 @29lbs: 1197 Hz, strung @Yonex German Open with EsPro, measurement at 6-8 hours after stringjob.

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  14. #29
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucantseeme View Post
    SW35 BG80 @29lbs: 1197 Hz, strung @Yonex German Open with EsPro, measurement at 6-8 hours after stringjob.
    Tks @ucantseeme .

    Can you please update after a few days to a week.

  15. #30
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    @kwun

    Looking at your graph, anytime after 24h is reasonably stable enough to start measuring.

    Of course I understand once the racket starts to be used, there will be some gradual 10-15 Hz drop after each session but this will also eventually stabilize after several sessions. Well at least Zymax strings behave that way due to their excellent tension retention properties.

  16. #31
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    I measured using Carltune

    My Victor BS12 with VS-850 is at 1040 Hz @ 6 Octave. It was strung digitally 6 month ago @ 23 lbs by an experienced stringer.

    My Yonex Nanospeed 200 with BG-66 is at 1000 Hz @ 5 Octave. It was strung digitally 1.5 years ago @ 23 lbs by the same stringer.

    Octave should be mentioned. That Nanospeed is a full octave lower.

  17. #32
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Thanx SSSSNT.

    Your 6 months old vs850 correlates to my 1015 Hz vt80 with the same string at 24 lbs after 1yr. And after whacking some plastic birds it dropped further to 980 Hz. Plastic birds are really murder on strings!

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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Thanx SSSSNT.

    Your 6 months old vs850 correlates to my 1015 Hz vt80 with the same string at 24 lbs after 1yr. And after whacking some plastic birds it dropped further to 980 Hz. Plastic birds are really murder on strings!
    Was yours also at 6 octave?

  19. #34
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSSSNT View Post
    Was yours also at 6 octave?
    Don't worry about the octave thing... its just a designation for piano tuning. Just look at the frequency.

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