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  1. #732
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    The match THW-LCW was very worth watching indeed. No less than LD-LCW in the past. I hope to see the final match THW-XS but where can we watch that?

    Who can guide where to see replay of the final ?

  2. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklike Tier View Post
    Its not meaningless at all. In fact, there's very important dialogue that needs to be addressed, not to mention there is a large cultural divide between Western sporting values and Chinese ones that goes a long way to explain why Australian audiences are clearly not as excited as you are .
    You know,I'm actually extremely reluctant to respond but I'm just an ordinary mortal,not a sage,what to do.

    First off, I strongly feel that the so-called 'very important dialogue that needs to be addressed' should begin with you and yourself or your own kind. Why don't you start a thread to discuss,debate,argue or even commiserate or rant and rave over it instead of 'littering' all over the place? I'm no psychologist/psychoanalyst though I've read a bit of Sigmund Freud and lately curious about Jacques Lacan, so I can't point you in the right direction.

    I'm aware you've opened a thread on why you believe nationalism is bad and,you know what, I tend to agree with you - see my location where I say I'm a citizen of the world (following Socrates),in other words, I'm an internationalist. But nationalism is a complex subject,it has its uses,both good and bad, and problems, eg it can go dangerously wrong leading to dire consequences as happened in the prelude to the Second World War in Germany, Italy and Japan.And I won't be naive to think nationalism can be abolished or diminished when there is the one true sole superpower in the geopolitical world that is bent on dominating the world on her own terms for her own self-serving,national interest. How is the United Nations Organization ever going to become a World Government one day? Dream on.

    Sorry,I digressed.Chinese badminton supremacy is,as I've often said, benign and her contributions irreplaceable,immense and to be applauded. All this she achieved playing by the rules set and governed by the world badminton body BWF. I believe practically every member association in CHN's shoes would have done everything within the rules allowed to maximize their chances of winning even if one of the rules set such as the Olympic qualification spots is against her - I read that Peter Gade didn't in a similar (yet somewhat different) situation but that's him, the important point is no rule was broken. When I hinted that I'd bear PG's words in mind I was referring to his stand on what CHN did was a cultural thing, no need to make a fuss over it. Besides, that the great,legendary Peter Gade himself paid the highest tribute to Lin Dan whom he considered the greatest ever by inviting him and no one else for his Farewell Match and even hosted him at his home with his favourite red wine - speaks volumes. On that LOG WD fiasco and scandal involving not only CHN but INA and KOR as well, PG said it's not confined to badminton but something that has happened to many other Olympic sports.

    Frankly, it's quite clear why some people here expect and demand that CHN be held to the perfect or highest ideal standard but are most willing and happy to conveniently overlook and forgive any similar failing on the part of others; nay, any slightest fault committed by CBA, they will not hesitate to jump on it and make a mountain out of a molehill. Let's view the problem in the proper perspective - it pales in comparison to what's happening or has been happening in many other sports, such as the recent soccer match-fixing scandal involving betting syndicates,in boxing I was told it's widespread, in F1 auto racing which is both a team and individual sport where team order is the norm, etc,etc. No excuse but they aren't the same.

    Plainly speaking, for any player, once you step on court , what is of utmost concern to you is not how your CHN opponent or anyone for that matter gets on the opposite side to play you as long as it's legal but,most importantly, how to beat him/her/them. Any violation of the rules or wrongdoing is for the relevant personnel and authority to deal with it or BWF stands accused of connivance and/or complicity. I rest my case.

    With no disrespect, if you don't have anything new to add - not just related to CHN/CBA (why single her out,fair game?) but other countries/BAs too - I really don't wish to dwell on this subject anymore. Let's look forward and move on. There are exciting times ahead for badminton and the just concluded AUS Open GPG is one of the harbingers.Cheers! Enough said, too much actually.

  3. #734
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    Talking about exciting times ahead, I've in mind the following as far as the players are concerned:

    1) Lin Dan is coming back, beginning with the BAC'13, but with the added uncertainty of his form;

    2) Chen Long's rise to the top to seriously challenge both Lee CW and Lin Dan;

    3) CHN WS showing more vulnerabilities even for their top two, LXR and WYH;

    4) the rise of new CHN MD pairs in Liu Xl/Qiu ZH and Chai Biao/Hong Wei;

    5) to a lesser extent and for the time being until further confirmation, Wang Zhengming's rise;

    6) the coming of Tian Houwei and Xue Song, perhaps Qiao Bin too;

    7) the possible decline of Lee CW (hope not too soon);

    8) the rise of non-CHN challengers such as Intanon Ratchanok,Jan O Jorgensen,Tommy Sugiarto, Tanongsak Saensomboonsuk, Sayaka Takahashi, Tai T Y...(add your pick sensibly);

    9) the return of Wang Shixian's form (this one is purely personal,yes, I'm pushing it).

  4. #735
    Regular Member Maklike Tier's Avatar
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    Well Justin, that certainly was a nice rant. You make some nice leaps of judgements and even agree with me about my stance on nationalism in sport and proclaim to be a 'citizen of the world'.

    As a 'citizen of the world' then, you would be innately familiar with the cultural differences and traditions of 'sportsmanship', and culturally the unique paradigms that influence Australian (ergo, British) attitudes towards thus, yes?

    All I was suggesting in my very brief response to a simple question, was that what was being expressed by the percieved 'lack of enthusisam' by the crowd in Sydney, is just simply an expression of the Australian vernacular. For example, as a sweeping generalisation, Australian culture has a propensity to support the underdog, but dislike the interloper more. Our attitudes towards 'worthiness' and 'heirachy' are actually quite complex and rooted in the British tradition, and unstudied I imagine would seem very alien in to any outsiders.

    As a 'citizen of the world' you would also be aware of Australia's multiculturalism, so you also have elements of diaspora there and cross-culturalism and a whole raft of mess meaning there's also probably a very complicated mechanism and mob mentality going on there that I wouldn't on face value be able to fully grasp. You might also be surprised to know that while 90% of the faces in the crowd are Asian or of Asian descent, the minority of them would be Chinese. Not exactly a 'home crowd' then, and you'll excuse the locals if they're not thrilled by the presence of their economic 'benevolent overlord'

    There's also two other factors. The first is how China in general is viewed within SE Asia as a whole. This is not an area I know much about, but generally I'd hazard a guess and say that China is generally not well liked. I could be wrong because I'm an outsider, so someone please prove me wrong, but if I was allowed the liberty to make over-arching statement on that, I'd say that China was not very popular amongst the Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese, Indonesians, at the very least. Diplomacy might say otherwise, but I'd hazard to suggest that if you sent out a 'like/dislike' poll to everyone in Asia, you'd get more dislikes than you would likes. Do that globally, and the results would be even less favourable. But again, this is not my area, so please prove me wrong, but my co-'citizen of the world' status tells me that's probably not the case.

    Would this be a surprise to most Chinese I'm sure, but it's very firmly rooted in the fact that China despite it's love of commerce is still a Communist country, and as such not seen as that word you like to use frequently - benign. Chinese badminton is not benign - it brings with it Chinese cultural imperialism, Communist culture, ideas of what constitutes 'sportsmanship', and a whole raft of other notions that people react against which is completely legitimate and within their rights.

    There's also this whole notion of dialogue and criticism in the Western tradition that must be completely foreign to your average Chinese national. Could we even be having this dialogue in China? Even notions of not being able to speak freely is highly threatening to the Western experience. How dare I even bring up issues of which a constructive dialogue I believe is an important one to be having?

    And all this from someone who was puzzled why a crowd wasn't as enthusiastic as he'd liked!

    Last edited by Maklike Tier; 04-08-2013 at 04:33 PM.

  5. #736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklike Tier View Post
    。。。but generally I'd hazard a guess and say that China is generally not well liked. 。。。

    ... Chinese badminton is not benign - it brings with it Chinese cultural imperialism, Communist culture, ....
    This is far beyond the limit. Your inappropriate generalization is nothing but discrimination. Your inappropriate generalization and accusation are not only groundless, but also malignant, humiliating every Asian people. and yourself.

  6. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin L View Post
    Talking about exciting times ahead, I've in mind the following as far as the players are concerned:

    1) Lin Dan is coming back, beginning with the BAC'13, but with the added uncertainty of his form;

    2) Chen Long's rise to the top to seriously challenge both Lee CW and Lin Dan;

    3) CHN WS showing more vulnerabilities even for their top two, LXR and WYH;

    4) the rise of new CHN MD pairs in Liu Xl/Qiu ZH and Chai Biao/Hong Wei;

    5) to a lesser extent and for the time being until further confirmation, Wang Zhengming's rise;

    6) the coming of Tian Houwei and Xue Song, perhaps Qiao Bin too;

    7) the possible decline of Lee CW (hope not too soon);

    8) the rise of non-CHN challengers such as Intanon Ratchanok,Jan O Jorgensen,Tommy Sugiarto, Tanongsak Saensomboonsuk, Sayaka Takahashi, Tai T Y...(add your pick sensibly);

    9) the return of Wang Shixian's form (this one is purely personal,yes, I'm pushing it).
    Care to explain what exactly you meant by this bracketed comment?

  7. #738
    Regular Member Maklike Tier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2cents View Post
    This is far beyond the limit. Your inappropriate generalization is nothing but discrimination. Your inappropriate generalization and accusation are not only groundless, but also malignant, humiliating every Asian people. and yourself.
    Your personal attack is even more of a baseless generalisation. What is your counter-argument for the crowd reaction in Sydney, based on your knowledge, training and experience? Do you have one, or is an educated dialogue that much of a threat to you that you have to resort to personal attacks and self-righteous indignation?

  8. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklike Tier View Post
    Your personal attack is even more of a baseless generalisation. What is your counter-argument for the crowd reaction in Sydney, based on your knowledge, training and experience? Do you have one, or is an educated dialogue that much of a threat to you that you have to resort to personal attacks and self-righteous indignation?
    Where do you base the "lack of crowd enthusiasm" from ? From what I saw and heard from the live stream of the MS final, this certainly wasn't the case ..

  9. #740
    Regular Member Maklike Tier's Avatar
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    The original posters comment was in regard to the Semi-Final.

  10. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Care to explain what exactly you meant by this bracketed comment?
    Sure, I simply mean that everybody has his/her fave(s) and they are free to add in any names they like but not randomly give a list of names without reasonable basis. As you can see, my list is open-ended and incomplete, I may have miss any names unintentionally, no offence intended, that's why I'm indirectly inviting input; feel free to do so,to each his/her own.

    Btw, I'd like to add Lee Yong Dae/Ko Sung Hyun, Ahsan/Setiawan, Tantowi/Natsir, Juliane Schenk, and Saina Nehwal.

  11. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsae75 View Post
    Seems to me that Teh Siu Bock's days could be numbered if LCW's poor form and result continue. Why is he, Rashid Sidek and even LCW laughing with each other towards the end of the game and finding the defeat amusing? I guess it's a way of deflecting some pressure or heat off one's shoulder, or maybe it's a gesture of embarassment.

    LCW's style is becoming predictable - I reckon the chinese camp has figured out his game some time ago - it's speed, speed and smashes. Of course, one has to be supremely fit to be able to keep up with his punishing pace and stamina but I guess we found that in the 19-year old Tian Hou Wei on Saturday.

    The mental approach from LCW in this tournament was wrong from the start - LCW was simply too confident (no thanks to the media and his World No. 1 status). And the backlash would of course be undue pressure on himself and increased moltivation to his opponent.
    Tian Hou Wei is 19 yo ??
    you sure ??
    He played in WJC BS Final 2009 against 22 yo Iskandar.
    Even at that time, there were some rumours that Tian was cheating his age.
    If he didnt cheat his age at that time, then he should be 21 yo by now... cmiiw

  12. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by fathonezic View Post
    Tian Hou Wei is 19 yo ??
    you sure ??
    He played in WJC BS Final 2009 against 22 yo Iskandar.
    Even at that time, there were some rumours that Tian was cheating his age.
    If he didnt cheat his age at that time, then he should be 21 yo by now... cmiiw
    Yep. He is not 19 .. He is 21. He was born in January 1992.

  13. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin L View Post
    Talking about exciting times ahead, I've in mind the following as far as the players are concerned:

    1) Lin Dan is coming back, beginning with the BAC'13, but with the added uncertainty of his form;

    2) Chen Long's rise to the top to seriously challenge both Lee CW and Lin Dan;

    3) CHN WS showing more vulnerabilities even for their top two, LXR and WYH;

    4) the rise of new CHN MD pairs in Liu Xl/Qiu ZH and Chai Biao/Hong Wei;

    5) to a lesser extent and for the time being until further confirmation, Wang Zhengming's rise;

    6) the coming of Tian Houwei and Xue Song, perhaps Qiao Bin too;

    7) the possible decline of Lee CW (hope not too soon);

    8) the rise of non-CHN challengers such as Intanon Ratchanok,Jan O Jorgensen,Tommy Sugiarto, Tanongsak Saensomboonsuk, Sayaka Takahashi, Tai T Y...(add your pick sensibly);

    9) the return of Wang Shixian's form (this one is purely personal,yes, I'm pushing it).
    what i like to see is the return of Wang Xin and Wang Lin.

  14. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin L View Post
    Talking about exciting times ahead, I've in mind the following as far as the players are concerned:

    1) Lin Dan is coming back, beginning with the BAC'13, but with the added uncertainty of his form;

    2) Chen Long's rise to the top to seriously challenge both Lee CW and Lin Dan;

    3) CHN WS showing more vulnerabilities even for their top two, LXR and WYH;

    4) the rise of new CHN MD pairs in Liu Xl/Qiu ZH and Chai Biao/Hong Wei;

    5) to a lesser extent and for the time being until further confirmation, Wang Zhengming's rise;

    6) the coming of Tian Houwei and Xue Song, perhaps Qiao Bin too;

    7) the possible decline of Lee CW (hope not too soon);

    8) the rise of non-CHN challengers such as Intanon Ratchanok,Jan O Jorgensen,Tommy Sugiarto, Tanongsak Saensomboonsuk, Sayaka Takahashi, Tai T Y...(add your pick sensibly);

    9) the return of Wang Shixian's form (this one is purely personal,yes, I'm pushing it).
    what i like to see is the return of Wang Xin and Wang Lin.

  15. #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanY View Post
    what i like to see is the return of Wang Xin and Wang Lin.
    Oh yes,that's my wish too !

  16. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpion1 View Post
    Yep. He is not 19 .. He is 21. He was born in January 1992.
    actually, i do believe that his real age is around 23-24 yo

  17. #748
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    Gosh, this Aussie MT is badly brain-washed.

    In the overall scheme of things, badminton is but a footnote in the tsunami of great things to come from China – and I venture that is the reason for the uneasiness and apathy in the crowd on Saturday (the “crowd” being the Australian crowd of Anglo-Saxon or British origin).

    The underlying truth is that all nations will do all it can in its power to gain leverage and advantage over the other. If nationalism, even though perceived by many as a double-edge sword, could be used in such a way as to unite its people and motivate them into achieving things that could proffer towards a stronger and more prosperous future (that is in-line with the government’s long term agenda or strategy), then I guess there is absolutely nothing wrong with “nationalism”.

    However, even the term “nationalism” is misleading in itself – it is a word cleverly coined by the West in order to try to marginalise (and demonise) countries such as China - brainwashing unsuspecting folks like many on this forum and everywhere else. What is actually patriotism in China is being coined as nationalism by the West, but never the reverse – why can’t anyone see the hypocrisy and double standards of the West? Which country in the world does not have any level of patriotism or nationalism in its people?

    There was a time when the West always regard the Chinese as weak and lacking in confidence. Now that the Chinese have become more affluent; more confident and vocal on matters pertaining to her own historical past for example, the West would accuse it as nationalism and propaganda. The gullible world have been brainwashed because they have seen the World through western lens for too long – 200 years maybe - and MT here is our good example.

    Well, China is basically a country which has no problem with history as long as it is recorded properly.

    So in this multi-lateral, multi-cultural world – and deep beneath the superficiality of our day-to-day acquaintances with fellow colleagues; neighbours; and people on this forum - we have already unwittingly taken a side that aligns with our own allegiance and cultural roots to varying degree. We are only a ‘citizen of the world’ as long as it is economically beneficial and fashionable to do so. Because when ‘push comes to shove’, who can you turn to except your own?

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