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  1. #103
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    Winning in Mixed Doubles is totally different from winning in Men's Doubles. It's a different event.

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    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Yeah. That doesnt mean one cant have an understanding of both and/or be a good or even great coach....remember that it was under ZJ's guidance that Cai/Fu had most of their big success (i.e. WC&OG Gold, victories over Jung/Lee in their hardest-fought battles)

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    I just watched this pair against Boe/Mo in the Swiss Open today, and I was once again reminded by the sheer physical power and angle Hong Wei possesses. It's amazing! I haven't seen this kind of smashing since young Fu Hai Feng or Xu Chen. The only problem with Xu Chen recently is his physical fitness/stamina as he tends to burn out from the intense smashing in the second game. Too bad the Swiss open doesn't seem to show smash speeds. I'm sure Hong Wei had some in the 280-290 range today.

    Boe/Mo definitely played some great tactics to force a fast driving game to avoid Hong Wei's smash though the Chinese were up to the challenge. Thankfully in this pair, having Chai Biao in the back is almost as dangerous in his smashes.

    In terms of the excitement and thrill factor, Chai Biao/Hong Wei are definitely the pair to watch with their sheer power and fairly decent drive game. They barreled through Boe/Mo in straight games with this tactic.

    They probably would still lose to Setiawan/Ahsan though in two tight games. Maybe a third. It's a pair you have to defeat through tactics, drives, and good placement. Slugging it out in a smashfest with this pair is definitely a one way ticket out of a tournament.

  4. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactim View Post
    I just watched this pair against Boe/Mo in the Swiss Open today, and I was once again reminded by the sheer physical power and angle Hong Wei possesses. It's amazing! I haven't seen this kind of smashing since young Fu Hai Feng or Xu Chen. The only problem with Xu Chen recently is his physical fitness/stamina as he tends to burn out from the intense smashing in the second game. Too bad the Swiss open doesn't seem to show smash speeds. I'm sure Hong Wei had some in the 280-290 range today.

    Boe/Mo definitely played some great tactics to force a fast driving game to avoid Hong Wei's smash though the Chinese were up to the challenge. Thankfully in this pair, having Chai Biao in the back is almost as dangerous in his smashes.

    In terms of the excitement and thrill factor, Chai Biao/Hong Wei are definitely the pair to watch with their sheer power and fairly decent drive game. They barreled through Boe/Mo in straight games with this tactic.

    They probably would still lose to Setiawan/Ahsan though in two tight games. Maybe a third. It's a pair you have to defeat through tactics, drives, and good placement. Slugging it out in a smashfest with this pair is definitely a one way ticket out of a tournament.
    this example MAS's Goh/Lim that defeated them by using drive and flat game, because this make disadvantage for any tall players as they have to squat down low and thus make knee painful more...

  5. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngkt67 View Post
    this example MAS's Goh/Lim that defeated them by using drive and flat game, because this make disadvantage for any tall players as they have to squat down low and thus make knee painful more...
    I didn't really feel like I saw that much squatting today vs BoMo despite a fair amount of flat exchanges.

  6. #108
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    I think their current play style is a welcome contrast to what Gillian Clark's been mentioning, the "3 shot" tactic. Where the players try to win the point as soon as possible with, as the name says it, the first three shots played in a rally. CB and HW are tall, powerful, but neither of them are especially excellent at the net, but CB seems to be the better of the two as a play maker.
    In the direction that Mens double at the current moment, I don't think they'll be a very successful pair as the 3 shot tactics are effective against pairs without excellent net play. In fact, the high intensity flat exchange that most top pairs play e.g. setiawan/ahsan, Endo/hayakawa is just simply the exact weakness for tall players like CB and HW.
    In the swiss open, CB/HW were lucky enough to play against a inconsistent Boe, who couldn't pull off the usual net play, and in my book the reason why they wiped them out in two games.
    When they get to play their rallies out, e.g. playing against ZN/FHF, their exemplary over head strokes just simply blow world class players away.
    So now, if they want to settle down as a pair, they'll have to find a way to combat the fast flat play, and I think Zhang Nan has the answer to that. If you listened to Morten Frost comment on how ZN played most of the shots to the net on the serve receive, I think that's the way to essentially play the shuttle away from the middle lane of the court and either end up with a lift or lifting.
    Either way, as powerful as they are and effective with a smash, I don't think they're exactly suitable in the current evolution of men's doubles.

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    Chai Biao always has those stylish haircuts

  8. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ozafo0 View Post
    When they get to play their rallies out, e.g. playing against ZN/FHF, their exemplary over head strokes just simply blow world class players away.
    So now, if they want to settle down as a pair, they'll have to find a way to combat the fast flat play, and I think Zhang Nan has the answer to that. If you listened to Morten Frost comment on how ZN played most of the shots to the net on the serve receive, I think that's the way to essentially play the shuttle away from the middle lane of the court and either end up with a lift or lifting.
    Either way, as powerful as they are and effective with a smash, I don't think they're exactly suitable in the current evolution of men's doubles.
    Haven't they tried Zhang Nan/Chai Biao for a few tourneys here & there in the past 3 years or so? Zhang/Chai were beaten in straight-sets by Boe/Mogensen in WC 2013.

    Having observed Chai Biao/Hong Wei at least over the 9 tourneys in the past 1 year, it's safe to say that this pair will thrash mediocre up to top 10 pairs if the opponents dare to engage them in an all-out attacking game. No question about that.

    Let me try to dish out the H2H against the top 10 pairs (other than Liu/Qiu, Koo/Tan, Ko/Lee, and Kim/Kim since the later 3 pairs have split or are inactive at the moment) since they debuted:
    vs Ahsan/Hendra 0-1
    vs Endo/Hayakawa 3-1
    vs Boe/Mogensen 2-0
    vs Rian/Angga 0-1
    vs Hoon/Tan 1-0

    Total H2H: 6-3 -- A good record in fact

    The other 3 losses were to: Goh/Lim (MAS SSP Final 2014, H2H -0-1), Kim/Kim (HKG SS 2013, H2H - 2-1), and Ko/Lee (Singapore SS 2013, H2H - 1-1).

    So, 6 losses in 9 tourneys with 3 GPG titles. Quite impressive I would say but they are still inconsistent in the bigger stage (SS/SSP tourneys). Given the lack of options for Team CHN at the moment, I think we will see Chai/Hong in the Thomas Cup 2014, featuring as CHN's MD2. That will pit them against Goh/Lim and Rian/Angga again (if MAS and INA were to meet CHN).

  9. #111
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    Ok, I think its time to break up this pair. I had high hopes for them and indeed they played extremely well in several tournaments. But they lose time and time again against teams that they should win against.

    China doesn't really have any good options for MD.

    Any ideas what new pairing they could come up with? The main problem is that they don't have good skills at the net like LYD and YYS.

  10. #112
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    It's a bit weird to come to that conclusion after they lost to a world class Korean pair who were definitely favorites...

  11. #113
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    Sure, its fine if you just want to be a top 10 or top 15 pair. But if you're following the footsteps of FHF/CY and if you're from China, you only aim to be contending for the gold. If you can't even contend for semi-finals, then there's really no point in continuing.

  12. #114
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    Yeah they definitely need to go.

    Bring in more youngsters like Wang Yilv IMO

  13. #115
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    the korean pair were very successful in making the whole match absolutely flat. they barely lifted the shuttle, and every time they did that they invited some of the most brutal smashes one could imagine and lost a point. although hong and chai dont manage to make it to the top, their attacking game is the most exciting I've ever seen and I just like it


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie View Post
    It's a bit weird to come to that conclusion after they lost to a world class Korean pair who were definitely favorites...

  14. #116
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fauci View Post
    the korean pair were very successful in making the whole match absolutely flat. they barely lifted the shuttle, and every time they did that they invited some of the most brutal smashes one could imagine and lost a point. although hong and chai dont manage to make it to the top, their attacking game is the most exciting I've ever seen and I just like it
    I happen to share that opinion. While I understand China aims for the top, it's a bit quick to say they need to split this pair up only because they lost against Kim/Kim, who are -atm- the second strongest Korean pair and earned their place in the Top 5 (although they're currently behind Lee/Tsai, which they will correct soon I believe).

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