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  1. #69
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    ^ completely agree with j4ckie...for the first time haha. I personally also think that CY/CB do not have the same skillsets which is why they are to me the more complementary partnership as CY is a fantastic net player and can also guide CB in that area. Anyway, I've read in some Chinese news that CB/CY has a high chance of meeting their team mates Liu/Qiu in the second round. And Hong/FHF will probably meet the two Kims in the first round (or second, can't recall now) in the Denmark Open. Would be interesting matches.
    Last edited by lilmizsara; 10-01-2013 at 08:51 PM.

  2. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilmizsara View Post
    ^ completely agree with j4ckie...for the first time haha. I personally also think that CY/CB do not have the same skillsets which is why they are to me the more complementary partnership as CY is a fantastic net player and can also guide CB in that area. Anyway, I've read in some Chinese news that CB/CY has a high chance of meeting their team mates Liu/Qiu in the second round. And Hong/FHF will probably meet the two Kims in the first round (or second, can't recall now) in the Denmark Open. Would be interesting matches.
    Yes, based on the draw posted yesterday by our member.

  3. #71
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilmizsara View Post
    ^ completely agree with j4ckie...for the first time haha. I personally also think that CY/CB do not have the same skillsets which is why they are to me the more complementary partnership as CY is a fantastic net player and can also guide CB in that area. Anyway, I've read in some Chinese news that CB/CY has a high chance of meeting their team mates Liu/Qiu in the second round. And Hong/FHF will probably meet the two Kims in the first round (or second, can't recall now) in the Denmark Open. Would be interesting matches.
    Don't be sad. There's got to be a first time for everything!
    Can't wait for the DO to start. F**king calf injury still haunting me. Nothing to do but study, watch baddy, do upper body training....I'm starting to detox and it isn't pretty!

  4. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4ckie View Post
    They aren't similar in their skillset whatsoever....CY is the best net player China has, and Chai Biao is certainly lacking in that area....also CB is a pretty hard smasher, and while CY is not too much behind him in that aspect, he only developed his attacking play from the back court later in his career....FHF and CY both are pretty complete players, but if you consider their natural style of play CY is very net-oriented and FHF heavily favors back-court play. CB/HW both prefer to play from the back of the court, thus I think both would find that CY complements them better, but playing with FHF might actually help them more as he is more similar to their usual partner, only much more experienced and pretty much better in all areas
    Well I have to say I dont agree. Im not saying they are exactly the same, as clearly that cannot be. But whilst CB does have a slightly better smash than CY and so would feel more comfortable in the rear (like LYD) he wont be able to sustain the attack against strong defenders, I feel his strength is actually in the mid and forecourt area like CY. Agree that CB doesnt quite possess the solid net skills like CY but CB is still the best of the remaining, i.e. HW and FHF in that area.

    I also dont agree that FHF and CY are complete players, they are exceptional players and obviously vastly experienced in their own rights, but I wouldnt call them complete individually. Both have improved on their weaknesses over the years and are capable in those areas, but they are still quite far off from being completely accomplished (net for FHF and rear for CY). I feel that CB and HW are more complete players (albeit less experienced and consistent) than FHF and CY but dont excel in a particular area in their game to the same extent as FHF and CY.

    CBs smash is good, but not outstanding and is only slightly better than CY. What they both do very well is in the mid court area, fast flat play which is the area where the game is gravitating towards more so amongst the top MD players. Only time will tell, but Im certainly looking forward to seeing these two pairings play.

  5. #73
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    CB is the weakest of the 4 around the net. Just like FHF, he has too big a swing around the net and wants to smash every single shot. I agree that he is pretty good in the mid court, but he is most definitely at his best around the back and pushing forward into the mid court. His defense and his net play are his worst qualities, although they have improved.
    Hong Wei is similar in that he isn't too comfortable around the net and that his defense is a bit vulnerable at times. Both are very good at smashing and following it up, which is why they are pretty successful so far - while neither is comfortable playing the net for a longer period, both like to follow their attack forward to it and are proficient at finishing it at the net, given the chance.

    In the early stages of his career, I think FHF was the most complete of the 4. It seems as though Chinese coaches insisted on focussing on his smash at the cost of net play and defensive capabilities though. If you watch 2003-2005 matches of him, he is very willing to play the net and not as error-prone as in later years, especially 2008. The best example of that is the 2003 WC SF against Budiarto/Wijaya.
    Just comparing the different aspects of their game, FHF might be comparable to HW/CB in defense but better everywhere else. He isn't an allround player though because his attacking play from the back still eclipses all his other abilities, and it isn't what I meant to say by calling him a complete player.

  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilmizsara View Post
    ^ completely agree with j4ckie...for the first time haha. I personally also think that CY/CB do not have the same skillsets which is why they are to me the more complementary partnership as CY is a fantastic net player and can also guide CB in that area. Anyway, I've read in some Chinese news that CB/CY has a high chance of meeting their team mates Liu/Qiu in the second round. And Hong/FHF will probably meet the two Kims in the first round (or second, can't recall now) in the Denmark Open. Would be interesting matches.
    problem here, i heard that CY doesnt have enough ambition to play badminton anymore.
    he is quite slow too now. CB has to cover many areas, i think, due to the slowness of CY

  7. #75
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Yeah, he's so slow that he only won the Bronze in the WC. Nothing compared to CB's achievements, of course....

  8. #76
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    happy birthday to chai biao

  9. #77
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    LYB said that Chai Biao and Hong Wei are pretty much determined to be permanent partners.

    I often wonder about this pair if their height is a hindrance to their play. Does anybody think that being so tall (6'3) makes it difficult to return serve and to hit the flat drives and pushes? The net is only 5feet high, so Hong Wei has to bend down quite low just to hit the flat drives.

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    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    It's not difficult to return the serve, but standing at the front and doing sth constructive with a flat drive is a bit tricky indeed. If you don't have pretty strong and flexible legs and can move effortlessly in a very low stance, there are situations where your height becomes a hindrance. In defense, it's more of a weakness being so tall as well.
    On the other hand, being that tall has definite advantages too. Hong Wei has a pretty solid jump for someone that tall and thin, so he gets pretty crazy angles on his smashes, good power too. The reach is bigger as well, especially useful in a drive situation where you're not so high up the court - you can play many shots without even taking a step.

  11. #79
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    For someone so tall, he's much better than Ivanov, who is slower and less agile.

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    He is about 10cm shorter than Ivanov. Ivanov really is a giant, while Hong Wei looks very tall because he's so thin, but iirc he's 'only' about 1.90...but yeah, he's pretty agile for his size

  13. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhuangcorp View Post
    LYB said that Chai Biao and Hong Wei are pretty much determined to be permanent partners.

    I often wonder about this pair if their height is a hindrance to their play. Does anybody think that being so tall (6'3) makes it difficult to return serve and to hit the flat drives and pushes? The net is only 5feet high, so Hong Wei has to bend down quite low just to hit the flat drives.
    I saw the interview with LYB. Personally I do not think that Chai and Hong make a good pairing. =/ Yes, they have achieved some quite good stuff in some tournaments in the first part of 2013 and especially at the tail-end of 2013. But I just don't think they mesh well together. First off, I agree with you, both are very tall and it's strange to pair them together as I feel both have the same playing styles and weaknesses, and nothing really very special. Both have incredible smashes, and Chai to me is quite good at mid-court. But both are hasty, make quite a lot of mistakes (especially Chai), seem to have trouble focussing sometimes, aren't too consistent, aren't particularly good at defending or very good at the net either. Neither of them are also creative players and there's not really a playmaker setting up shots for the other. Watching them sometimes it's just bam bam bam smashing at 100km/h to kill off their opponents haha. Individually I prefer Chai, though I think he plays the best when pairing off with slightly shorter, more experienced and older players like Guo Zhendong and Cai Yun and at CBSL level, Zheng Bo. I actually thought he played very well with Cai Yun. It seems like he's abit more steady with someone older there as an experienced guide. Hong on the other hand, incredible smash, but unfortunately like his previous partner Shen Ye, I honestly do not see anything special about him =/ I personally think the coaches are pairing them up simply because there isn't anyone else in the team to pair either of them up with. And Chai Biao has long been a victim of the constant changes in partners over the years, and I'm not sure it really helps him. Just my 2 cents.

  14. #82
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    I agree with you about HW/CH. They aren't really ideal partners. But I think CBA has decided to pair them up for the following reasons:

    1) As you said, there simple isn't anybody else to play with (except Zhang Nan). Shen Ye and Guo Zhendong just were not good enough at the elite level. CY and FHF are too old and wouldn't be able to peak together for the 2016 Olympics.
    2) Even though they are very inconsistent and awkward, they have indeed had some good results and wins over top players (Lee Yong Dae, Boe/Mo, Hayakawa/Endo)
    3) Being that both of them are incredibly powerful from the mid and back-court, they provide a different style of play and that might throw off some opponents
    4) I do see that CB is trying to learn from Cai Yun and does appear to be improving at the front of the court.


    I often wonder what it would be like to pair Hong Wei with Zhang Nan. Hong has great power, and Zhang is definitely more of a thinking player.

  15. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhuangcorp View Post
    I agree with you about HW/CH. They aren't really ideal partners. But I think CBA has decided to pair them up for the following reasons:

    1) As you said, there simple isn't anybody else to play with (except Zhang Nan). Shen Ye and Guo Zhendong just were not good enough at the elite level. CY and FHF are too old and wouldn't be able to peak together for the 2016 Olympics.
    2) Even though they are very inconsistent and awkward, they have indeed had some good results and wins over top players (Lee Yong Dae, Boe/Mo, Hayakawa/Endo)
    3) Being that both of them are incredibly powerful from the mid and back-court, they provide a different style of play and that might throw off some opponents
    4) I do see that CB is trying to learn from Cai Yun and does appear to be improving at the front of the court.


    I often wonder what it would be like to pair Hong Wei with Zhang Nan. Hong has great power, and Zhang is definitely more of a thinking player.
    1) I wonder what happened to Shen Ye? I know Guo Zhendong started coaching the Junior team or some youth team after the Chinese Nationals last year in Sept, so he's no longer in the squad. Who else do they have.... gosh, they really don't have anyone! Don't think they will split Liu/Qiu, Cai/Fu will probably be split up here and there to play with the younger ones.. Kang Jun Liu Cheng? I personally like Liu Cheng's playing but unsure how the coaches see this pair (or will split them up in future) as they are the youngest pair amongst this 4.

    2) I think those wins were good ones too, but I don't think this actually says much about their prowess yet, as I feel they haven't played long enough for us to see any patterns either way. Also, they have lost to Endo/Hayakawa once, although they won once. Boe/Mo weren't exactly in good form last year. They beat Lee/Ko when they were starting out at the Swiss Open (that was a really nice match). But in the middle of the year (Indonesia, Singapore Opens) they didn't get past the 1st rounds. Cause it's always the case that when a new partnership is formed, other pairs have zero experience against them and the new pair wins as a result (provided they are of a certain calibre). Also, I think this Chai/Hong pair have been playing in patches here and there it's so hard to observe anything concrete! But it'll be nice to see how they get on.

    3) I think it does throw off some opponents. But this is also something I've observed - if opponents are able to keep the shuttles low, drive and do net shots more, and are able to counter-attack and not lift so much - I find this pairing just runs out of ideas. And that's cause they play too similarly. I think they would need other creative strategies than just straight out attacking.

    4) True! I liked his partnership with Cai. I secretly hope they pair up together but don't think it will happen haha.

    I wonder the same too. Zhang is the 'playmaker' type, but actually when he was partnered with Chai Biao, I found it awkward to watch. Mostly because Chai was always making so many mistakes haha, & Zhang doesn't seem very consistent in his matches too (even in mixed). Interestingly, Zhang is partnering FHF in the Malaysia Open next week, whilst Cai Yun is partnering Liu Cheng. I think these two pairings will be interesting to watch.

    I have another thought about this too, to me it seems like the more successful partnerships usually have a 'thinker'/creative type in them (Lee Yong Dae's partnerships, Cai Yun, Liu Xiaolong, Setiawan) and co-incidentally these players are also good at the net. If they perform well, and if their partner doesn't make too many mistakes, they tend to win matches more often. So I don't know, perhaps they could groom either Chai or Hong to be better and more perceptive at the front.

  16. #84
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    Congrats to HW/CB for making it into the SF of their first tournament together this year.

    They beat some pretty good pairs, and have a good chance to win the title if they can stay consistent. They seem to be playing tactically much smarter and much more active with their movement.

    I love watching them smash. For the defender, its almost impossible to get the shuttle past the height of the front man, whether its HW or CB.

  17. #85
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    HW/CB make it to the final of Malaysia Open with a good chance to win over the home team. I hope they can get their ranking higher so they can finally get a seed.

    Their style of play has definitely changed since last year. They are playing much smarter. Their serve and return has improved dramatically since last year. And their net play has improved a lot.

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