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  1. #273
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    Shutterlag.

    This is one feature which I'm quite interested in.

    I found some data for Canon

    350D - 0.02sec

    5D - 0.01sec

    1D Mark IIN - 0.001secs

    Nikon

    D50 - 0.02secs

    ( I got this from digitalcamerainfo.com )

    I have a 350D and it's not that good for photgraphing top level badminton.

  2. #274
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung
    Quite a number. Go to www.worldbadminton.net for the list of tournaments
    thank you very much cheung!

  3. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquaboi
    so this is where my D200 post went! haha, been looking for it...

    so you mean, next aviva open i can just got to the stadium and they'll let me take pics at the sidelines?
    No you have to shoot from the public area but if you take the first row, that's pretty close.

    I think so far the 'amateur' photographers like myself have been well behaved at the Aviva open which is why they are still allowed to shoot.
    When i took photos, i took photos sitting down at my seat so as not to block other spectators as well.

    The last thing we need is for an incident... eg: amateur photographer illegally climbs over the barrier to shoot in a restricted area, that may lead to amateur photographers being barred from the Aviva open.

    so photographers at the Singapore Open... you're very lucky compared to other countries... don't abuse the privilege
    Last edited by storkbill; 11-20-2005 at 08:18 PM.

  4. #276
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    I see HK Open dates have been moved to Nov 15-19.

    That gives me time to wait for the 20D upgrade.

  5. #277
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung
    I see HK Open dates have been moved to Nov 15-19.

    That gives me time to wait for the 20D upgrade.
    cheung,

    at that time. u can only find one in the secondhand market!
    300 plus days. i think even the canon 5d would be outdated on nov 2006!

    red

  6. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by red00ecstrat
    cheung,

    at that time. u can only find one in the secondhand market!
    300 plus days. i think even the canon 5d would be outdated on nov 2006!

    red
    Sorry, I meant the new camera model to replace the 20D. That's the one I might get..hmm, what will it have. Probably better high ISO detail. Slightly faster fps (prob 6), higher flash sync. I think they'll keep it at 8MP.

    They'll want to tempt all the 350D owners into upgrading.

  7. #279
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung
    Sorry, I meant the new camera model to replace the 20D. That's the one I might get..hmm, what will it have. Probably better high ISO detail. Slightly faster fps (prob 6), higher flash sync. I think they'll keep it at 8MP.

    They'll want to tempt all the 350D owners into upgrading.
    then i strongly recommend u to get an updated version of 1ds mk2 n next year and let me use it!

  8. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung
    I see HK Open dates have been moved to Nov 15-19.

    That gives me time to wait for the 20D upgrade.
    i think i read somewhere that there is a improved verison of 20D (30D?)coming out. I could be wrong on this one.
    Last edited by cooler; 12-04-2005 at 01:35 AM.

  9. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun
    i took nearly 1400 pictures during the Singapore Open this year. it was nice to be able to take pictures right next to the court. i want to share the few things that i have learned from the experience. hopefully they will help ppl who are interested in getting into taking photos for badminton. just a warning though, i am only an amateur, professional probably will laugh at me for giving out these tips...

    clothing - you will be sitting on the floor and knees and crouching all the time, make sure you wear something comfortable especially comfortable flexy shoes.

    camera - badminton is too fast. way way too fast. a regular P&S and prosumer camera may give you one or two good shots. for real action ones, you need a SLR camera with good shutter response. a digital one is almost a must nowadays as you can take as many pictures as you like and delete away the bad ones as you go (80% of them). i used a D70 which was nice. but the professionals next to me are using the even more expensive models with burst rate that i can only envy. 5fps will increase the chance of catching the right moment much better than 3fps.

    lens - most pros use a 80-200/2.8 most of the time. unfortunately, that lens is way more than what i can afford. in fact, i mostly used a 70-210/3.5-4.5 and a 50/1.8. the 50 is sharp, but the 70-210 isn't very good at all but i had to deal with what i have.

    lighting/shutter - badminton is fast action. there is a action mode in most camera but i want more control than that. i use the shutter priority mode all the time and set the shuttler to 1/250 or 1/200. that's good enough for most shots. i think it is possible to freeze action with 1/500sec and a 50/1.4 lens, but the lens will cost US$200-300..

    ISO - not much need to be said here, use the highest ISO setting your camera give you. i used ISO1600 most of the time. the lighting in the stadium was very very good but for fast action photos, we will still have to deal with some grains and noise. being digital, we can do a post processing step and if you are planning to put the picture up on the internet, the scaling down is more than enough to take out most of the noise.

    manual focus - for action shot, i use manual focus all the time. it take ages for the camera to autofocus and then take a shot. by that time, the player already moved away. pre-focus to a certain spot and then wait for the player to move there. it is also important to hold the camera correctly, as you need two eyes, one for the viewfinder, the other one to watch the action.

    having said that, i find myself constant changing between M/AF. AF is very very nice outside the rally to capture player's emotion. set the autofocus to the middle and just let the camera focus on their faces and body. the key is to remember to not watch the game and then put down the camera when the rally is over. keep on taking pictures even after the rally is done. i have captured a few nice shots that way.

    burst - it is very hard to catch the right moment of the action. pros with lots of experience can probably do it better than me, but for me, much of it is some good guess in the timing and then the rest is luck. to increase the luck, i use continuous shooting mode. my D70 can do up to 9 shots in full res at around 3fps. so i watch the action, time it and then start right before the action and then stop afterwards. usually that's 2-3 shots. if i get lucky, some of them will come out interesting. most of the time, they are only so so.. this goes back to the discussion of the body, the faster the burst rate, the more you can take in and higher chance of a better shot.

    storage - i only have one 1G flash card, that hold 277 pictures. with digital photos however, i am able to take lots and lots without any cost. i used up the whole card just shooting the MS final alone. and unfortunately, i don't have a CF reader and downloading via USB takes ages. i wish i had one or two more to spare so i can just swap it out.

    positioning - with a media pass, i was able to shoot from right next to the court side. it was nice. the best positions are right behind the umpire, hiding behind/under the umpire chair, or at the four corners. the umpire chair position i used the 50/1.8 for all actions around the court, the corners i use both 70-210 for the other end of the court or the 50/1.8 for close-by rear court action.


    hopefully these tips will help the future badminton photographers out there. the rest is just left to your own preference of shots and imagination.

    enjoy!
    i apologize for bumping this very helpful post from last year.

    I myself am in the market for a nice starter D-SLR and am having a hard time deciding between the 350D/D70/D70S/D50

    I guess one important factor for me is the camera's innate ability to take nice badminton photos, WITHOUT having to sell a kidney to get a high performance lens.

    Does anyone have a *budget* set up for basic badminton photos here?

    Can anyone share his or her Camera + lens combo that works?


    thanks!

  10. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by crosstrainer
    i apologize for bumping this very helpful post from last year.

    I myself am in the market for a nice starter D-SLR and am having a hard time deciding between the 350D/D70/D70S/D50

    I guess one important factor for me is the camera's innate ability to take nice badminton photos, WITHOUT having to sell a kidney to get a high performance lens.

    Does anyone have a *budget* set up for basic badminton photos here?

    Can anyone share his or her Camera + lens combo that works?


    thanks!
    the innate ability to take nice badminton photos lie with the photographer...almost all of the newest DSLRs nowadays can take great badminton shots if handled properly.

    i suggest you take the camera which has the features that are most appealing to you (and your needs) and at the same time (more importantly, i think) feels comfortable in your hands. for ex. i like the features of the 350D but it's too small and doesn't feel solid. but those features can also be found in other cameras, so it boils down to build quality and how comfortable it feels when i'm using it. that's why i will never but it.

    the D50 and D70s kits are good enough for any beginners and amateurs like me oh, one more thing, for me the lens is more critical than the camera body...so invest in a decent body and buy a great lens!

  11. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquaboi
    for me the lens is more critical than the camera body...so invest in a decent body and buy a great lens!
    True to some extent but the camera is also very important in a few aspects.

    1) more expensive cameras have better detail at high ISO.

    2) the autofocus system of more expensive cameras is better than the cheaper cameras.

    3) shutter lag (time it takes from pressing the button to actual taking of the photo) is still a bit slow with 350D

    I have the 350D. It was very disappointing for me to see the AF system not being able to keep up with players especially when the focus point is right on the player.

    I got it because it was supposed to be a good camera for getting to know dSLR. However, when I attended HK Open, and my technique had improved, I quickly realised the deficiencies of the camera.

    So I'm looking to upgrade the body next year.

    Oh yeah, lenses I used where 50mm f1.8, 100mm f2.0, and managed to borrow a zoom lens 70-200mm/f2.8, and a 300mm f2.8. Except for the first, those are *expensive* lenses that pros use. With some advice from some of the very expert photographers on this forum, the message has been consistent - the 350D is not up to the demands.

    I imagine the same answer would be true for Nikon's D50/D70.

    D200 maybe something else though.

  12. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung
    True to some extent but the camera is also very important in a few aspects.

    1) more expensive cameras have better detail at high ISO.

    2) the autofocus system of more expensive cameras is better than the cheaper cameras.

    3) shutter lag (time it takes from pressing the button to actual taking of the photo) is still a bit slow with 350D

    I have the 350D. It was very disappointing for me to see the AF system not being able to keep up with players especially when the focus point is right on the player.

    I got it because it was supposed to be a good camera for getting to know dSLR. However, when I attended HK Open, and my technique had improved, I quickly realised the deficiencies of the camera.

    So I'm looking to upgrade the body next year.

    Oh yeah, lenses I used where 50mm f1.8, 100mm f2.0, and managed to borrow a zoom lens 70-200mm/f2.8, and a 300mm f2.8. Except for the first, those are *expensive* lenses that pros use. With some advice from some of the very expert photographers on this forum, the message has been consistent - the 350D is not up to the demands.

    I imagine the same answer would be true for Nikon's D50/D70.
    D200 maybe something else though.
    IMO, 350D/D70/D70S/D50 are ranked as prosumer camera. Badminton is a extremely demanding action sport that prosumer camera may not keep up. However, skill level of the photographer can compensate for their weaknesses with good result. Two years ago, i know a photographer who didnt or cant afford a dslr back then bot a higher end olympus point and shooter. His photos came out surprisingly...professional. He assembled an album of the 2004 revolution tournament(calgary). well, he was a pro photographer tho. I havent check back what he own now.

    for your purpose, a 20D is a minimum. Right red00?

  13. #285
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    for jump smash action, you would probably need a 8 fps+ DSLR. But for other 'slower' action shots, I don't see why the 20D / 350D can't do as well.

    Anyway, my brother just got a 20D so I will borrow it and try it out at next years' Singapore Open as well.

    Take for example, a player lunging at the net, this is well within the capabilities of say a 350D if you combine your photographic skills and your badminton knowledge of where the player is going to move to/what the player is going to do:


  14. #286
    Regular Member red00ecstrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler
    IMO, 350D/D70/D70S/D50 are ranked as prosumer camera. Badminton is a extremely demanding action sport that prosumer camera may not keep up. However, skill level of the photographer can compensate for their weaknesses with good result. Two years ago, i know a photographer who didnt or cant afford a dslr back then bot a higher end olympus point and shooter. His photos came out surprisingly...professional. He assembled an album of the 2004 revolution tournament(calgary). well, he was a pro photographer tho. I havent check back what he own now.

    for your purpose, a 20D is a minimum. Right red00?
    yep cooler. it's pretty good to start with a canon 20d or something similar in performance. (imoh it's an entry level dslr for sports photography.)
    for sports photography. the af system and the shutter time lag are quite important. if both of them are up to requirement. we will have a higher chance to get a decent sports photo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by red00ecstrat
    yep cooler. it's pretty good to start with a canon 20d or something similar in performance. (imoh it's an entry level dslr for sports photography.)
    for sports photography. the af system and the shutter time lag are quite important. if both of them are up to requirement. we will have a higher chance to get a decent sports photo.
    it's always good to have those medium-to-high end cameras - if you've got money to spare. amateurs and hobbyists who work on tight budgets can never go wrong with prosumer dslrs. besides, they would spend most of their "photography time" doing something else than capturing badminton photos, which the prosumer dslrs like the 350D/D70/D70s/D50/E300/E500 can handle comfortably...

  16. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by storkbill
    for jump smash action, you would probably need a 8 fps+ DSLR. But for other 'slower' action shots, I don't see why the 20D / 350D can't do as well.

    Anyway, my brother just got a 20D so I will borrow it and try it out at next years' Singapore Open as well.

    Take for example, a player lunging at the net, this is well within the capabilities of say a 350D if you combine your photographic skills and your badminton knowledge of where the player is going to move to/what the player is going to do:
    Your points are noted but one also needs to bear in mind the following:

    1) badminton knowledge - I'd say my badminton knowledge is pretty OK. But does that mean I'd automatically know where to get the best shots?

    2) ...a player lunging at the net, this is well within the capabilities of say a 350D if you combine your photographic skills ...Remember, there are different level of photographic skills. My photographic skills are nowhere near the same level as my badminton skills. There may be others whose photographic skills may be far better than their badminton skills

    3) a good action shot is possible with 350D - I do have some. But put it in context of all the shots I took. Most others were some framing problem, an arm in the way, the head cut off, no shuttle in the picture, out of focus because the AF system decided to focus on the contrast of the top of the net rather than the player....well, I don't rate the 350D for fast, indoor photgraphy very highly. I think it works fine otherwise.


    http://www.worldbadminton.net/Portal...10&ItemID=1883
    The picture of Shon was taken with 350D. The only action shot to make it to an article.

    http://www.worldbadminton.net/Portal...10&ItemID=1884
    The picture of Peter Gade was taken with a 350D - in fact, his hand is partially covering his face. If it wasn't for the story line, I could well imagine that picture wouldn't have made it to the final article

  17. #289
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    i'm actually concerned about the lenses required take badminton shots.

    even if you have the most expensive body, it'll do didly-squat if you don't have a fast-enough lens, right?

    a friend told me that you can *probably* get away with a basic body (like 350D) and get a fast lens, say 50mm @ F1.8.. but i don't know enough right now to comment.

    what lenses are you using?

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