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    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Default Thoughts after visiting a local HS tournament

    This morning I visited a local HS tournament. The purpose of the visit was to look up AK ( @kakinami ) coz i left some tools at his place a while back. It is a popular tournament for high school badminton players held in one of the local schools. I was surprised how big the tournament is. Present were at least half a dozen to a dozen high school, all the players not playing are at the stands cheering for their teammate, and there must be at least 300 of them.

    The level of play is high, not at high as in Asian countries, but much better than the high school tournaments i have seen here 10+ yrs ago. Now badminton is much more organized, the tournament is organized, computerize front desk prints out scoresheets, the teams have smart looking uniform. And most importantly, nice atmosphere with the teams cheer for their own teammates.

    I am very happy to see how much badminton has grown over the years.

    I spent nearly an hour there chatting with AK about stringing and about badminton, and also watch some matches. During which AK was so nice and tried to introduce me to some HS players and i was surprised that many of them have heard of BC. AK kindly wanted to get me more "fans", but it felt kinda strange, later on i realized why it was strange. coz deep down i feel that I don't need any fans, i was already very happy to see these young fans of badminton instead. badminton has a bright future.

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    I'm assuming you visited the Newark Memorial Varsity Tournament? If so, thanks for visiting! Always nice to have good comments about our tournaments.

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    Are high school tournaments referred to as Varsity tournaments?

    Second questions is, what sort of computer system/software was being used? Seriously, that's a huge number of people attending to keep things organised. I might be organising a tournament myself, hence the interest.

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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    If that is the environment that badminton is being played in US high school with all the supporters etc, I foresee it is only a matter of not much time before the US overtake all European standard and a lot of asia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigandy View Post
    If that is the environment that badminton is being played in US high school with all the supporters etc, I foresee it is only a matter of not much time before the US overtake all European standard and a lot of asia.
    That's a bit of a leap from some 2nd hand information, isn't it?

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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    That's a bit of a leap from some 2nd hand information, isn't it?
    Let me explain. I watched a documentary a couple years back about how a tiny island like Jamaica could possibly produce so many world class athletes, had you ever wondered how they had achieved this? was it genetics?, coaches? etc. Turned out the reason was because at high school level, at athletic meet ups grandstands were full with people cheering them on. This in short made the athletes feel inspired, and attracted more participation to get the best. You can find the same link in most sports/motor racing.

    300 watching local high school badminton tournament does not happen in Europe an some​ of Asia. Is it a big leap? yes, sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable but that is my theory.

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    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vavewave View Post
    I'm assuming you visited the Newark Memorial Varsity Tournament? If so, thanks for visiting! Always nice to have good comments about our tournaments.
    @vavewave ,

    yes, that's the one! are you one of the organizers?

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    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    Are high school tournaments referred to as Varsity tournaments?

    Second questions is, what sort of computer system/software was being used? Seriously, that's a huge number of people attending to keep things organised. I might be organising a tournament myself, hence the interest.
    both questions should be answered by @vavewave . my guess is that there are two types of tournament, one is for HS students and is open to all, and this one might be for the varsity team players only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    @vavewave ,

    yes, that's the one! are you one of the organizers?
    I helped work the front desk. I'm actually an alumni of that school and previous player on their badminton team.

    And no, that tournament was referred to as a Varsity because generally, only the varsity on each school's badminton team are allowed to sign-up. We also have a Frosh-Soph tournament where the freshman and sophomores on the badminton team play.

    And I'm not exactly sure what system we were using. A lot of the tournament organization was writing by hand and communicating between the front desk and other places. We only used a computer to figure out the actual matches and to print out the papers, but I'm not too sure on what system we were using.

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    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigandy View Post
    Let me explain. I watched a documentary a couple years back about how a tiny island like Jamaica could possibly produce so many world class athletes, had you ever wondered how they had achieved this? was it genetics?, coaches? etc. Turned out the reason was because at high school level, at athletic meet ups grandstands were full with people cheering them on. This in short made the athletes feel inspired, and attracted more participation to get the best. You can find the same link in most sports/motor racing.

    300 watching local high school badminton tournament does not happen in Europe an some​ of Asia. Is it a big leap? yes, sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable but that is my theory.
    Athletics is pretty much the national sport in Jamaica yes and maybe football. I did actually see that one, think I still have a copy .
    As for this tournament: those 300 are the players . Those who were not playing were cheering on their teammates: "Present were at least half a dozen to a dozen high school, all the players not playing are at the stands cheering for their teammate, and there must be at least 300 of them."
    But a tournament this size is not so uncommon here on the Junior Masters Circuit for example like this one last week:
    http://badmintonnederland.toernooi.nl/sport/players.aspx?id=158ED52B-F4C9-473E-8770-8CDFF49CBC56

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    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    the development of badminton in the USA, and maybe even in many parts of Asia is NOTHING compared to the club system in Netherlands, Germany and Denmark. (i think France as well)

    in the US, there is zero organization from the national body. all tournaments are fragmented and run by local schools or clubs. USA Badminton don't have any say on them at all.

    it will take years if not decades to overcome the uselessness of the national body here.

    but at least at the local scale, there are much more participation by school and local players, and the level has been going up.

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    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    The focus is perhaps still too much on schools to provide a competitive league. It can't possibly be all that hard to organize a league in the LA area and another in the SF area. The greater LA area already has a population the size of the Netherlands or is making "varsity" in a backyard sport that big a deal .
    But France is definitely the up and coming country in Europe, they do have a league system indeed but have also made great effort to get it implemented in the schools PE curriculum and is now the biggest sport in schools over there (not sure how that exactly works in terms of competition and football and rugby probably work outside the school system completely). Also the highest number of competitive players in Europe now, by far iirc ... and numbers in Denmark and Netherlands declining year after year (a little slower or not in an [post-]Olympic year)
    Last edited by demolidor; 04-01-2013 at 03:18 PM.

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    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demolidor View Post
    The focus is perhaps still too much on schools to provide a competitive league. It can't possibly be all that hard to organize a league in the LA area and another in the SF area. The greater LA area already has a population the size of the Netherlands or is making "varsity" in a backyard sport that big a deal
    yeah. well, that's what you'd think. but it seems that no one want to put up the hardwork.

    there are leagues between schools. but they are organized by the school teams themselves.

    the league system in Europe goes way beyond that though.

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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demolidor View Post
    Athletics is pretty much the national sport in Jamaica yes and maybe football. I did actually see that one, think I still have a copy .
    As for this tournament: those 300 are the players . Those who were not playing were cheering on their teammates: "Present were at least half a dozen to a dozen high school, all the players not playing are at the stands cheering for their teammate, and there must be at least 300 of them."
    But a tournament this size is not so uncommon here on the Junior Masters Circuit for example like this one last week:
    http://badmintonnederland.toernooi.nl/sport/players.aspx?id=158ED52B-F4C9-473E-8770-8CDFF49CBC56

    Although that tournament link has nothing like on the scale of 300 it is still massive participation, that is surprising, maybe take a little longer then. Plenty of countries have a national sport and still can't compete at world level, I think it is more about the professionalism and support that, the specific sport gets compared with other countries at a younger age that was the counting factor.

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    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Maybe you should count them (286, saved you the trouble hehe) ... it's just around the block here .

    As for TNF in Jamaica, great weather year 'round also makes a big difference as well as past pedigree and special juice . Local juniors/athletes here/in (west/north) Europe have to save up for training camps in Portugal, Spain and South Africa during the off season with a big lack of indoor facilities like in Sweden/Scandinavia ...
    Well the Scandinavians can also be found in Portugal, SA, etc so no difference on that end but they do have excellent facilities for year 'round training.
    There once was another documentary on the British juniors and one sprinter and particular with an Africa/Nigerian sounding name that was quite interesting as well but I never recorded it nor found a copy online
    Last edited by demolidor; 04-01-2013 at 05:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigandy View Post
    300 watching local high school badminton tournament does not happen in Europe an some​ of Asia. Is it a big leap? yes, sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable but that is my theory.
    Not uncomfortable, just not believable, sorry. They don't have sufficient coaching resources and competitive environment at appropriate levels to manage a major change in the time scale you implied.

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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    Not uncomfortable, just not believable, sorry. They don't have sufficient coaching resources and competitive environment at appropriate levels to manage a major change in the time scale you implied.
    No need to apologise it's not as if there is fact involved, all just theory as said. I think if it is growing and the interest is there the US will make it happen, Look at soccer, it ain't there yet but it's happening.

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