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    Default Dissertation question on backhand and forehand

    Hello,

    I am wanting to know if there has been any studies carried out with regards to someone's forhand being stronger than someone's backhand in the forecourt and net play! And in people's opinion why this is? The study I have done on subjects shows the backhand side tends to be stronger! I have coached badminton for about 10 years and coached at county level! I would like to know other coaches thoughts on this matter!

    Cheers
    Rich

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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    I am no coach but i can tell you one of the reasons why it is easier to play backhand net is because the shuttle is more in front of your eye line and for cross court net you have to be closer to the shuttle than backhand cross net due to wrist mechanics. In forecourt for example lifts again due to wrist mechanics Backhand can cover a lot more laterally than forehand and again usually more naturally facing shuttle with backhand.

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    how well have you searched google scholar?

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    greetings spc_no_1 .
    maybe the study below can be a starting point to the information you are seeking. BEST OF LUCK TO YOUR ENDEAVOR.


    Functional comparison of pronation and supination strengths.


    Timm WN, O'Driscoll SW, Johnson ME, An KN.

    Source


    Orthopedic Biomechanics Laboratory, Mayo Clinic/Foundation, Rochester, Minnesota.



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    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    If you're right handed, have you noticed that you're much stronger at tightening screws than loosening them? There's your answer.

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    A layman's contribution:

    From the point of beginning of your stroke to the point of contact with the shuttle...

    when lifting from the net, your forehand cannot bend backwards from the elbow to create a wider arc of more than 90 deg, and consequently a more forceful return.

    On the other hand, you can bend your elbow inwards when making a backhand lift and create a much wider arc of around 135 deg.

    The wrist rotation in both cases applies, so this cancels out in comparison, I would think...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    A layman's contribution:

    From the point of beginning of your stroke to the point of contact with the shuttle...

    when lifting from the net, your forehand cannot bend backwards from the elbow to create a wider arc of more than 90 deg, and consequently a more forceful return.

    On the other hand, you can bend your elbow inwards when making a backhand lift and create a much wider arc of around 135 deg.

    The wrist rotation in both cases applies, so this cancels out in comparison, I would think...
    when the op says he is interested in forecourt actions/net play, does your mind really go straight to lifts?

    I think you should be a bit embarrassed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    when the op says he is interested in forecourt actions/net play, does your mind really go straight to lifts?

    I think you should be a bit embarrassed!
    Ahem... lifts, not clears.... last I looked, that was forecourt action. Op mentioned "in the forecourt and net play" as distinct from "play contained within the forecourt area". The way I read it, the issue is about whether backhand or forehand play is stronger and more effective when playing from the forecourt or at the net.

    At least, that's how my embarrasingly ineffective understanding of the language sees it...
    Last edited by cobalt; 04-26-2013 at 06:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Ahem... lifts, not clears.... last I looked, that was forecourt action. Op mentioned "in the forecourt and net play" as distinct from "play contained within the forecourt area". The way I read it, the issue is about whether backhand or forehand play is stronger and more effective when playing from the forecourt or at the net.

    At least, that's how my embarrasingly ineffective understanding of the language sees it...
    oh no, I understand lifts correctly. Why not considering drive and net kill actions?

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    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    oh no, I understand lifts correctly. Why not considering drive and net kill actions?
    No particular reason, really. I'm a layman when it comes to all the physics stuff, but I just felt that a lift would better illustrate the difference in the arc between forehand and backhand actions from in front of the body. And that this arc in some way affected the power of the shot being made. Of course, not considering a drive from the forecourt or net may have something to do with my embarrasingly mediocre grasp of the game itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    No particular reason, really. I'm a layman when it comes to all the physics stuff, but I just felt that a lift would better illustrate the difference in the arc between forehand and backhand actions from in front of the body. And that this arc in some way affected the power of the shot being made. Of course, not considering a drive from the forecourt or net may have something to do with my embarrasingly mediocre grasp of the game itself.
    I don't think there is anything interesting at all to say about the fact that one can lift better from the backhand side for the reasons you have outline - simple bio mechanical limitations on the f/h side.

    More interesting is to look at the comparative strength of f/h vs. b/h drive where the range of motion is much more symmetrical.

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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    I don't think there is anything interesting at all to say about the fact that one can lift better from the backhand side for the reasons you have outline - simple bio mechanical limitations on the f/h side.

    More interesting is to look at the comparative strength of f/h vs. b/h drive where the range of motion is much more symmetrical.
    Same reason why forehand is stronger than backhand on drives - "simple bio mechanical limitations" on the backhand

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    forehand isnt stronger in general, though (for drives)



    And what limitations, specifically?
    Last edited by amleto; 04-26-2013 at 07:32 PM.

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    Forehand drive is a one directional flow of power from all arm muscles involved. Reaching across your body even slightly for backhand drive reduces power capabilities.

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    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    I don't think there is anything interesting at all to say about the fact that one can lift better from the backhand side for the reasons you have outline - simple bio mechanical limitations on the f/h side.
    I do, actually. The Op was looking for opinions why it is so. I think a longer and more pronounced swing arc allows for more control of direction than the shorter and hurried one. The upper body (back) also naturally arches and the entire position of the body along with the lift, straightening out of the elbow and final push upwards of the leg allows you to hit cleanly "through the line" as opposed to "beside the line" for a forehand lift. That is why you may observe something that is actually interesting: that a proper backhand lift always reaches higher and farther to the baseline than a forehand lift.

    More interesting is to look at the comparative strength of f/h vs. b/h drive where the range of motion is much more symmetrical.
    Even more interesting would be to discover exactly how you propose to drive from the forecourt... as opposed to push.

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    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Yep, cobalt, you brought up a good point about forecourt lifts. That's why if there's a drop down the middle, it's always better to let the backhand player take it. And we see this all the time at pro levels. Also this is also why it's best as an attacker to drop just a tad to the forehand side as much as possible.

    And to take it further, backhand defence is notably better and more powerful than forehand for the same biomechanical reasons.
    Last edited by visor; 04-26-2013 at 09:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigandy View Post
    Forehand drive is a one directional flow of power from all arm muscles involved. Reaching across your body even slightly for backhand drive reduces power capabilities.
    That is one kind of drive. Probably not used in the forecourt much since the shot will likely sail out of the back of the court. You can also drive when the shuttle is received much more centrally. In these cases the arm motion will be more similar for f/h & b/h than the kind of side-swipe drive you are describing.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    I do, actually. The Op was looking for opinions why it is so. I think a longer and more pronounced swing arc allows for more control of direction than the shorter and hurried one. The upper body (back) also naturally arches and the entire position of the body along with the lift, straightening out of the elbow and final push upwards of the leg allows you to hit cleanly "through the line" as opposed to "beside the line" for a forehand lift. That is why you may observe something that is actually interesting: that a proper backhand lift always reaches higher and farther to the baseline than a forehand lift.
    I think all of that is obvious and intuitive.

    Even more interesting would be to discover exactly how you propose to drive from the forecourt... as opposed to push.
    Of course you can drive from the forecourt! Just think of some return of serve options - drive to either rear corners. The major difference between a push and a drive is how hard you hit it.
    Last edited by amleto; 04-27-2013 at 05:44 AM.

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