Results 52 to 68 of 150
05-16-2013, 07:36 PM #52
Everyone is also missing the fact that throughout the swing, the player is accelerating the racket so the system of racket + shuttle that people are considering is subject to external forces that invalidate all the maths + conclusions.
05-16-2013, 07:48 PM #53
But it doesn't matter what happens throughout the swing, it's exactly at that point of shuttle and racket contact that we're concerned about with either P or KE exchanged and hence their respective conservation equations... and I still prefer KE, as does Yonex apparently.
Last edited by visor; 05-16-2013 at 07:55 PM.
05-16-2013, 07:53 PM #54
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05-16-2013, 07:55 PM #55
05-16-2013, 08:09 PM #56
I don't think anybody was trying to convert all momentum, just using what's available to get ball park figures. Friction,repulsion, absorpsion, etc can be subtracted after using either formula and affect it the same? I have not read anybody disagreeing with this or not getting it. What still remains is that the ke formula seems to give a good ball park figure but the momentum one doesn't.
Last edited by craigandy; 05-16-2013 at 08:11 PM.
05-17-2013, 12:14 AM #57
I'm getting a feeling that we're sidetracked...
Pronation should help generate more power. However, as some have pointed out, panhandled grip would restrict the amount of rotation one can have.
For the same reason, but with a completely different effect, panhandled grip would allow full supination to be applied without sending the shuttle outside the court. So even with overhead shots, panhandle works much better with backhand shots.
05-17-2013, 06:04 AM #58You can see Lin Dan use a slightly more panhandle grip when he clears as you can see his wrist flex at the end of the stroke.
In order to hit with maximum power, you need to have a (roughly) neutral wrist at impact. That's why the contact point for a smash should be brought slightly in front of the contact point for a clear.
If a smash uses the same contact point as a clear, you have to bend your wrist downwards (i.e. flex) in order to get the racket pointing down. Doing so loses power, and this is one reason that a behind-the-body stick smash is less powerful than a power smash.
Of course, this lowers your contact point back to what it would have been in the first place, so you don't gain any height advantage in the end. And the difference in height between the contact point of a smash and a clear is minimal anyway: about an inch.
Whenever the contact point changes, the grip should change (all other things being equal). This applies to every shot. On the forehand side, farther in front = more panhandle, farther behind = more thumb grip. On the backhand side, it's the opposite.
Large changes in the contact point require large changes in the grip. Small changes in the contact point require small changes in the grip.
Almost every professional player uses a grip more towards basic while smashing, again, in order to get the downwards angle.
They prioritize high contact point over the shuttle being very in front of their body.
For shifting towards panhandle when clearing, that's not necessary especially for attacking clears, but may help for high defensive ones.
A punch clear is an example of a shot where the wrist can be used deceptively. You can start with a smash (or fast drop) contact point, and then bend back (extend) the wrist to angle the racket more upwards.
This gives you the option of winding up for a smash, deliberately slowing down your swing so that your opponent thinks you're playing a drop shot, and then finishing with a punch clear.
This means you're hitting with an extended wrist and a partial panhandle grip. This results in a significant loss of power, but that's okay because you're playing a shot that needs little power.
Last edited by Gollum; 05-17-2013 at 06:13 AM.
05-17-2013, 08:53 AM #59
I don't think anybody was trying to convert all momentum,...
That's what you did in post 35 and why the answer you get is so crazy.
Last edited by amleto; 05-17-2013 at 09:03 AM.
05-17-2013, 10:54 AM #60
So i can see 360mph is a long way off 70mph but 136mph is not(I know you lose a lot of speed given other factors).
I think you are getting the wrong end of the stick though. I can only assume I must have the maths way wrong, I am not disagreeing. I was just looking for some more informed answers since it was raised as an argument in this thread.
05-17-2013, 11:51 AM #61
Interesting point you make about the contact point and grip changes. I think we all non beginners do this instinctively without thinking during play. Once you have your correct basic stroke mechanics, you will automatically adjust your grip to control the angle of the racket face relative to contact point, where you are on court, and where you want to hit to.
Which is more important: proper grip or proper stroke?
I suppose this is like the chicken and egg question.
Both are just as important because you can't have one without the other.
Last edited by visor; 05-17-2013 at 11:54 AM.
05-17-2013, 12:35 PM #62
It doesn't matter what numbers are picked, the problem that everyone seems intent on solving is the wrong one!
I did point those interested in the correct direction by linking to the elastic collisions wiki page. No one cared to plug their numbers into the equations I suggested, though.
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05-17-2013, 01:50 PM #63
05-17-2013, 02:03 PM #64
05-17-2013, 03:25 PM #65
05-17-2013, 05:00 PM #66
05-17-2013, 07:58 PM #67
05-18-2013, 06:41 AM #68