# Thread: Calculations of Momentum P=mv, and Kinetic energy KE=(mv^2)/2 of a racket on shuttle

1. Originally Posted by craigandy
@Superzoom Again only formulas, tracker vids, etc to prove this panhandle stuff not semantics, not for this thread. Sure everyone will be happy to look at your findings in this thread if you do that. Real figures though.
Just add 0.1 second and see how much speed reduction is accomodated (Bottom Line Neutral effect in Basic High power shot Vs Panhandle +0.1 second addition but less speed (due to less power).

Take 200 kmph for 0.3 second for example .. add 0.1 second (and 200 is original hit speed .. the average speed in trajectory could be 100 - 120 ? for whole duration (point a to point b) . consider air- resistance etc. and that 0.1 second addition could bring the average speed from 100-120 to 70-90 ?

Since it's MATH simulation now .. why don't you do it ... I will take your answer. THAT is IF you are interested. If not it's fine. I am not trying to prove any point. Nither do I am on any mission

Life will go on for everybody ...

SZ

2. Originally Posted by Superzoom
Just add 0.1 second and see how much speed reduction is accomodated (Bottom Line Neutral effect in Basic High power shot Vs Panhandle +0.1 second addition but less speed (due to less power).

Take 200 kmph for 0.3 second for example .. add 0.1 second (and 200 is original hit speed .. the average speed in trajectory could be 100 - 120 ? for whole duration (point a to point b) . consider air- resistance etc. and that 0.1 second addition could bring the average speed from 100-120 to 70-90 ?

Since it's MATH simulation now .. why don't you do it ... I will take your answer. THAT is IF you are interested. If not it's fine. I am not trying to prove any point. Nither do I am on any mission

Life will go on for everybody ...

SZ
Yeah go for it, I will need you to send the vids of the swing you talk of plus the shuttle being hit a few meters all showing this time gain thing and I will run it through the tracker to try and verify or axe the idea.

3. superzit, this thread is for trying to predict shuttle speed based on racket initial conditions. If you can't understand that then let me spell it out for you - it has nothing to do with panhandle or your magic numbers that you make up.

4. Originally Posted by visor
Please no panhandling talk on this thread... save it for the other one... :P
Sorry. I was trying to explain why panhandle is only an effective and useful shot from the front for short distance shots. Then decided to include a little bit about why it's also dangerous and got a little bit carried away. I apologise for the distraction and I'll try and keep it relevant from now on.

So, back to the important stuff... what equations can we use so I know how to adjust my racquet and swing to smash it like Hidayat?

5. amleto, we can only blame Notorious for reigniting the panhandling again...

edit: hey... how'd Notorious get in his post before me...

6. Originally Posted by TheNotoriousLIG
So, back to the important stuff... how can I smash it like Hidayat?

7. Originally Posted by visor
edit: hey... how'd Notorious get in his post before me...
With physics, anything is possible :P

8. Originally Posted by TheNotoriousLIG

So, back to the important stuff... what equations can we use so I know how to adjust my racquet and swing to smash it like Hidayat?
Ummm... use pronation and avoid panhandling?

9. Great found a panhandle example vid I am running through tracker now, will it be better than Taufik? lets wait and see everybody

10. Originally Posted by craigandy
Yh, I thought so till I started thinking using impulses and angular dynamics. In theory, I could swing it just as fast as TH, but if I can't maintain the contact time due to change in velocity around the arc of the swing, the velocity of the shuttle is reduced. What the ideal swing would have is half an elliptical shape so there is more time with force being hit through the shuttle rather than at an angle to the shuttle causing loss of energy.

Going to start putting proper equations together soon hopefully but I have a lot of work to do first. Also, do you think CofR changes significantly with different arm strengths and shock down the arm? ie the shuttle contact pushes the arm back significantly enough to change trajectory and energy transfer and if so, how can we measure it?

11. I seem to remember somewhere that the contact time of the strike is only 0.02 secs or so, so the racket head has to reach max acceleration just before that. It's not how fast you can swing it, but also how fast you can accelerate to max speed the racket into the bird for that 0.02 secs. Hence, the term explosive swing.

12. Originally Posted by TheNotoriousLIG
Yh, I thought so till I started thinking using impulses and angular dynamics. In theory, I could swing it just as fast as TH, but if I can't maintain the contact time due to change in velocity around the arc of the swing, the velocity of the shuttle is reduced. What the ideal swing would have is half an elliptical shape so there is more time with force being hit through the shuttle rather than at an angle to the shuttle causing loss of energy.

Going to start putting proper equations together soon hopefully but I have a lot of work to do first. Also, do you think CofR changes significantly with different arm strengths and shock down the arm? ie the shuttle contact pushes the arm back significantly enough to change trajectory and energy transfer and if so, how can we measure it?
Interesting I think you are on to something.

One thing I noticed when doing the tracker vids was that all the pro's I sampled the software with, at contact and just before and after had a much more linear stroke than me(an amateur). So as it was in the software Vx = horizontal velocity and Vm = velocity magnitude showed the angular velocity. The pros Vx was always nearly the same as their Vm on and around contact. My Vx was a lot less than my Vm.

13. Fellas, the smash action is very similar to throwing a baseball or football... some angular motion at beginning and end of the throw, but mostly linear into the release or strike.

Oh, btw, I'd like to see SZ try throwing a baseball without pronation.

14. Originally Posted by craigandy
Interesting I think you are on to something.

One thing I noticed when doing the tracker vids was that all the pro's I sampled the software with, at contact and just before and after had a much more linear stroke than me(an amateur). So as it was in the software Vx = horizontal velocity and Vm = velocity magnitude showed the angular velocity. The pros Vx was always nearly the same as their Vm on and around contact. My Vx was a lot less than my Vm.
do you have some links for the 'pro vids'? I would have thought the difference in angle would be more due to them using jump smash and generally getting better angle on their smash than Jo Schmo.

15. Originally Posted by amleto
do you have some links for the 'pro vids'? I would have thought the difference in angle would be more due to them using jump smash and generally getting better angle on their smash than Jo Schmo.
The easier ones(for racket work) to feed into tracker are LJB's video's. The only jump smash one I did "successfully" was the slow mo of FHF point of contact Vx 1.46m/s Vm = 1.50m/s, so Vx is 97.3% speed of Vm. Pro's definitely hit through the shuttle more horizontally high Vx percentage(than me) in the slower examples and still get great angles. Timing must be the key to getting the racket to snap the shuttle downward with the shaft flex I would guess, rather than what I try and do which is hammer it down at the angle I want it to go. My Percentage Vx was always in the 80's% of Vm. Probably something I can work on.
Remember though this is just for at contact.

Fancy post a side on smash from yourself?

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