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  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundamzaku View Post
    i agree, because ultimately you're trying to have fun and enjoy the game with your opponents. but even during a tournament if it's really close and i'm not sure that it's out, i always call it in, just to give my opponent the benefit of a doubt, and like mentioned above, sportsmanship.

    and on a side note, i think someone had a quote on the forum, something about how competition brings out who you really are, especially in badminton for me
    strange, I actually agree with everything u said.

  2. #19
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    Wrong! You assume it is in. Only if you are damn sure it was out do you call it out. Seriously? Such straightforward sportsmanship is really that difficult a concept to grasp?
    Wow. Isn't that a tad harsh? Just because someone calls a let because he wasn't sure it was in or not. What if he had called it out instead of calling a let?

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Wow. Isn't that a tad harsh? Just because someone calls a let because he wasn't sure it was in or not. What if he had called it out instead of calling a let?
    How is that harsh. If you aren't sure, how can you reasonably call it out. Simple sportsmanship dictates you assume your opponents shot is good unless you clearly see it as out. No matter how badly you want to win the point.

    So, if he isn't sure and he calls it out, he is a cheater.

  4. #21
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    This may sound a bit silly, but I know for sure there are times when the player who has hit the bird is in a better position to judge if the shot lands in or out. Especially in singles, when hitting straight down the line.

    I've experienced some instances where the opponent calls it out, and I just smile and move on. If the opponent is a good friend, we'd kinda work it out. If not, I just move on. Life is full of grey areas, and a line call in a friendly match is pretty low on my list of priorities.

  5. #22
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    The way I was taught to deal with line calls is generally you accept what ever call the receiving player makes. If you believe your opponent has made the wrong call there is nothing wrong with asking him politely if he was sure about his call. If he reaffirms his call you accept it.

    This really isn't on topic though. Errors will be made and if you can't accept that you should probably play ping pong. Regardless, someone in the habit of calling any shot they are unsure of 'out', is nobody I want to have a game with. Friendly or otherwise.
    Last edited by thunder.tw; 06-24-2013 at 02:51 PM.

  6. #23
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Understandable. I hate playing against players who cheat on line calls to. When that happens, I just make it a point to remind myself to give myself more margin and not to hit too close to the lines.

    But what if he calls a let because it looks like the cork may or may not have touched the line on the outside edge? Especially when it was a fast shot like a smash.

  7. #24
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    I think when making line calls, angle plays a huge huge factor in it. I remember when I service judged a junior match, I saw a shot that I totally saw was completely out, like not without a doubt in my mind. The line judge called it in, I had a talk with the line judge and a few spectators nearby, it was 50/50 in what they saw the shot was. The line judge and the near spectators saw it was totally in, while some others thought it was totally out.

    In high school from where I am from, and around the region, if you are unsure, like someone mentioned above, you assume it is a good shot.

    But as a technical official, if the line judge is unsure, and we are unsure, we'd play a let. And it makes sense that you should replay the point. In the end, the match could have come down to that one point that no one is 100% sure if it was in or out. I feel it's the safer option.

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    But what if he calls a let because it looks like the cork may or may not have touched the line on the outside edge? Especially when it was a fast shot like a smash.
    May or may not have doesn't sound like he is very sure does it? How is it fair to take away a point from a player on the basis of a guess??

    How is a let a fair result? So, my opponent makes a brilliant play forcing me to make a short lift which he smashes to the back corner. So as long as I can say there is a chance the shuttle maybe, could have, might have gone out by a micrometer or so I can save my A$$ and call a let?

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CantSmashThis View Post
    I think when making line calls, angle plays a huge huge factor in it. I remember when I service judged a junior match, I saw a shot that I totally saw was completely out, like not without a doubt in my mind. The line judge called it in, I had a talk with the line judge and a few spectators nearby, it was 50/50 in what they saw the shot was. The line judge and the near spectators saw it was totally in, while some others thought it was totally out.
    that is an honest error in perception. But not relevant as you were in a formal match with a judge who is responsible for line calls. Spectators should keep their mouths shut. That being said, in a match where LCW is playing LD I feel pretty confident I could predict how a Malay spectator would see it.

    But as a technical official, if the line judge is unsure, and we are unsure, we'd play a let. And it makes sense that you should replay the point. In the end, the match could have come down to that one point that no one is 100% sure if it was in or out. I feel it's the safer option.
    Again a judged match is a different ball of wax. I'm actually curious what the official rules are in such a situation. I can't remember ever hearing of a let being given in world competition.
    Last edited by thunder.tw; 06-24-2013 at 07:37 PM.

  10. #27
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    ^ Very rare but there have been a few lets called by the umpire on line calls further away from him when the line judge indicates he's unsighted (eg. by the player) and can't make a call. Don't ask me when... probably seen it in world competition less than 5 times in the past 5 years.
    Last edited by visor; 06-24-2013 at 07:57 PM.

  11. #28
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Understandable. I hate playing against players who cheat on line calls to. When that happens, I just make it a point to remind myself to give myself more margin and not to hit too close to the lines.
    Solution: Body-smash.

    But what if he calls a let because it looks like the cork may or may not have touched the line on the outside edge? Especially when it was a fast shot like a smash.
    If you as the smasher also think the cork may or may not have etc etc, then how can you expect him to know for sure? Maybe he's just being honest....

  12. #29
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Solution: Body-smash.
    Yes, that'll work for a short while... but then I'll probably get tired of apologizing for hitting him after the tenth time...

    If you as the smasher also think the cork may or may not have etc etc, then how can you expect him to know for sure? Maybe he's just being honest....
    I still say in casual play to call let if either side can't tell for sure.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    If you as the smasher also think the cork may or may not have etc etc, then how can you expect him to know for sure? Maybe he's just being honest....
    This is not a question of whether the shuttle is actually in or out. The receiver has the responsibility to make the call. How can any person reasonably call a shot 'out' when they are unsure. You know damn well when you are sure of something and when you are not. So, if you are unsure of a shot and you make a habit of calling 'out' or for a let you are a cheater and hardly 'honest'. And, if you are actually attempting to call lines that closely, then you are taking a casual club game far to seriously.

    The only circumstance I'll accept a let is under the following sequence of events or something similar;

    1. Receiver makes a call
    2. Opposing player disagrees
    3. Receiver reaffirms his call
    4. Opposing player is to big of a jerk to let it go.
    5. In order to avoid an argument a let is reasonable.

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    This is not a question of whether the shuttle is actually in or out. The receiver has the responsibility to make the call. How can any person reasonably call a shot 'out' when they are unsure. You know damn well when you are sure of something and when you are not. So, if you are unsure of a shot and you make a habit of calling 'out' or for a let you are a cheater and hardly 'honest'. And, if you are actually attempting to call lines that closely, then you are taking a casual club game far to seriously.

    The only circumstance I'll accept a let is under the following sequence of events or something similar;

    1. Receiver makes a call
    2. Opposing player disagrees
    3. Receiver reaffirms his call
    4. Opposing player is to big of a jerk to let it go.
    5. In order to avoid an argument a let is reasonable.
    In doubles, if one player thinks it is out, and one player from the other side thinks it is in, then a third player from either side should mediate and call it a let ASAP and move on.

  15. #32
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    No matter how honest and well-intentioned the players are there willl always be disputes. Unless it is strictly a game among very understanding and cordial friends meant to be just a social outing. There must be the element of give and take.

    Even qualified line judges watching the line can make errors which have to be overruled by the Umpire.
    So expect social players to make mistakes, especially those that are not near where the shuttle has landed or even a player near it but was distracted by his own movement, etc. Remember optical illusion is still present and for players who attempt to make a good call when he is on the other side of the court is more suspect than one on the same side the shuttle landed.

    If it is a formal tournament, even a friendly club game, both sides can agree to have their players act as line judges. Better still have players watch over their opponents' lines to avoid disagreement. Otherwise agree that the side nearest the shuttle that makes the decision should be accepted.
    Last edited by Loh; 06-25-2013 at 01:53 AM.

  16. #33
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    in a friendly match/club training game, i call the shots of which i'm unsure in favor of my opponent. always!

    in tournaments/league play, i must admit that it depends on the opponent! after some years in the same region, i know which opponents are nice and fair, and i treat them as friends, which means i treat them like friends in a friendly match. in doubt, i call in their favor.

    i must admit, to my disgrace, that there are some opponents against whom i call close/unsure shots out. they do the same on the other side (and sometimes they even call obv good shots out), therefore my bad conscience is silenced...

  17. #34
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    ^ I admit I hate playing against line call cheaters, but I can never stoop down to their level.

    I just accept that it is just their very nature that in the heat of the battle may bring out the worst or the best in us... but I'll never do what they do. Where will it end?

    To compensate, I just make it a point to myself to not hit so close to the lines. Simple as that.
    Last edited by visor; 06-25-2013 at 03:09 AM.

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