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    Default Cutting off clears allowed?

    When playing doubles if you're at the front, can you take a swing at the bird as someone tries to clear it? OR is this illegal? Sometimes I can cut off a clear without reaching over the net, but I don't know if it is allowed.

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    Default Re: Cutting off clears allowed?

    Hey Cruxradio,

    As long as you contact the birdie after it left your opponents' court, it should be fine.

    Originally posted by Cruxradio
    When playing doubles if you're at the front, can you take a swing at the bird as someone tries to clear it? OR is this illegal? Sometimes I can cut off a clear without reaching over the net, but I don't know if it is allowed.

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    Is there a "blocking" rule in badminton that may apply here?

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    Well, yes and no. Blocking as such is legal, however it can be illegal under certain circumstances:

    Let's say your oppoent tries to clear the shuttle near the net. His racquet has to make contact with the shuttle on his side of the net, but he is allowed to follow through over the net, into "your" court. If you put your racquet up close to the net tape to block his shot and that interferes with his follow through, you are committing a fault.

    Unless the racquets actually touch, this situation is hard to rule with out a service judge -- and even then it will be a tough decision.

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    actually i was under the impression that at any time any part of you (your body, racquet etc) must stay on your side of the net

    at any time if you cross the net during play it is a fault

    can anyone verify this?

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    You can take a swing at the shuttle, but you can't hold your racquet at the net like a wall, even if you don't cross over into opponent's court. This is called a "balk." Same thing applies when opponent is making a net kill, you can't hold your racquet in front of their racquet. The exception to this rule is if you are holding your racquet in front of your face, since this is for protection.

    Phil

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    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Originally posted by clownboat
    actually i was under the impression that at any time any part of you (your body, racquet etc) must stay on your side of the net

    at any time if you cross the net during play it is a fault

    can anyone verify this?
    Yes, under normal circumstances you are right to say that your body, including your legs, and your racket, which actually becomes part of your body, must not invade your opponent's court, demarcated from the net onwards and extending to the floor. You can read all the FAULTS under the "Laws of Badminton", Law 13.

    However, in special circumstances like the one mentioned by Mag, you are allowed to follow through your stroke over the net, thus crossing over to your opponent's court.

    Law 13.3 states that "It is "fault" if, when in play, the initial point of contact with the shuttle is not on the striker's side of the net. The striker may, however, follow the shuttle over the net with the racket in the course of a stroke."

    What this means is that you cannot strike the shuttle if it has not crossed over to your side (or your side of the net) but you are allowed to cross over to your opponent's court if it is a follow through stroke, ie after hitting the shuttle legally near the net and your racket crosses over but not touching the net and your legs are still on your own side of the court.

    As regards Cruxradio's question on "Blocking", Law 13.4.4 considers it a fault, " if, in play, "a player obstructs an opponent, ie prevents an opponent from making a legal stroke where the shuttle is followed over the net",

    and Law 13.5, if, in play, "a player deliberately distracts an opponent by ANY ACTION such as shouting or making gestures".

    So, if your opponent is close to the net and attempts a stroke, you are not supposed to obstruct or distract him by standing CLOSE to the net and making any action, I suppose, including raising your racket menacingly to block his shot. The key is when you are "close to the net". You should allow him to play his shot unobstructed and undistracted by your blocking action.

    If you are not close to the net, say not within the short service area, you cannot be considered obstructing your opponent even if you raised your racket high menacingly because you are a good few feet away from the net. This is what most doubles receiver would do when anticipating an opponent's serve. The thing is not to make it a bad habit to raise your racket when you and your opponent are at the net and it is his turn to return the shuttle.
    Last edited by Loh; 12-10-2003 at 09:53 PM.

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    Originally posted by clownboat
    actually i was under the impression that at any time any part of you (your body, racquet etc) must stay on your side of the net

    at any time if you cross the net during play it is a fault

    can anyone verify this?
    Previously, yes. Now, not mandatory.

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    Default Re: Cutting off clears allowed?

    Originally posted by Cruxradio
    When playing doubles if you're at the front, can you take a swing at the bird as someone tries to clear it? OR is this illegal? Sometimes I can cut off a clear without reaching over the net, but I don't know if it is allowed.
    Specific examples I can think of are during 1985 All England Final. Kim Moon Soo did this against Michael Kjeldsen on match point.

    Another time was 2001 World Championship final Tony G did this against Ha Tae Kwon.

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    Originally posted by Loh
    So, if your opponent is close to the net and attempts a stroke, you are not supposed to obstruct or distract him by standing CLOSE to the net and making any action, I suppose, including raising your racket menacingly to block his shot. The key is when you are "close to the net". You should allow him to play his shot unobstructed and undistracted by your blocking action.
    please correct me if i am wrong but i was under the impression that waiting by the net with your racket up is legal. standing with your racket held up is considered ready position and is also the starting position when you do a push. if your opponent was able to anticipate your shot and be ready for his push then theres probably something wrong with your play. this is so far from being a distraction.

    since were talking about anticipating clears, it is also very unlikely for anyone to follow through to the other court from hitting a net shot and would probably called for lifting. i doubt there would be any racket clashes with your opponent.

    cutting off a clear or any shot not meant for you is fine as far as i know. its a very good tactic also.

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    Originally posted by quagmire
    please correct me if i am wrong but i was under the impression that waiting by the net with your racket up is legal. standing with your racket held up is considered ready position and is also the starting position when you do a push. if your opponent was able to anticipate your shot and be ready for his push then theres probably something wrong with your play. this is so far from being a distraction.

    since were talking about anticipating clears, it is also very unlikely for anyone to follow through to the other court from hitting a net shot and would probably called for lifting. i doubt there would be any racket clashes with your opponent.

    cutting off a clear or any shot not meant for you is fine as far as i know. its a very good tactic also.
    Anticipating and effectively blocking weak clears is fine provided there is no hint of obstruction or distraction to your opponent. Now if your opponent is not near the net, say even in the forecourt, and he attempts a clear which you aniticipated by moving in front with your racket held high above your shoulders, and you then successfully block his clear, there is obviously no obstruction or any intention on your part to do so.

    You can be faulted, if during a net play or if the bird is in the net area, you are directly obstructing or distracting your opponent from executing a proper stroke. For example, you stand very close to the net with a raised racket directly opposite your opponent who is intimidated by you and is prevented from making a proper return shot even though you are at the upperhand. The right thing for you to do in such a situation is not to harass or obstruct him with a raised racket but to keep your racket preferably at or below the net cord level and allow your opponent to strike the shuttle first before you counter it. Remember this is done at very close quarters, therefore you need to be careful not only to touch the net with your body or racket but also not to display any sign of distraction or obstruction to your opponent.

    On the other hand, even though you two may both be very close to the net, but your opponent is at one end of the net and you are at the other end, although you have your racket raised above the net, there is no hint of obstruction to your opponent as he can make a normal stroke unimpeded. It really depends on the circumstances and how the umpire sees the situation.

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    Originally posted by Loh
    The right thing for you to do in such a situation is not to harass or obstruct him with a raised racket but to keep your racket preferably at or below the net cord level and allow your opponent to strike the shuttle first before you counter it.
    for example you and your opponent are fighting it out on a net play. you hit a very close net shot and you know your opponent will only catch this below the net, is it illegal to have your racket head waiting above the net tape on your side before your oppenent strikes the shuttle as anticipation in case he returns with another net shot?

    this could really work for both sides since your opponent can see your racket even before hitting the shuttle, he can then go for a crosscourt net shot or a huge lift.

    harassing can really be subjective to the umpire. unless youre wildly waving your racket, i doubt you'll be called for harassing your opponent because of holding your racket up. shouting or stomping before you opponent hits the shuttle however could well possibly be called for distraction.

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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by quagmire
    [B]for example you and your opponent are fighting it out on a net play. you hit a very close net shot and you know your opponent will only catch this below the net, is it illegal to have your racket head waiting above the net tape on your side before your oppenent strikes the shuttle as anticipation in case he returns with another net shot?

    I agree that much has to depend on how the umpire views the situation.

    In your example above, if I were the umpire, I will call a fault against you. Because you are preventing the receiver from executing a good lob or play another decent net shot with your looming and threatening body with the raised racket just in front of him. To make a good lob over the net in that situation is difficult enough, to lob over an additional barrier created by your raised racket become much more difficult. In other words, you are obstructing him.

    Suppose there is no net dividing both of you, can you imagine how difficult it is for you to return a decent shot without being obstructed or hindered by your opponent's body and outstretched, raised arms? Of course the net is there to prevent you from invading your opponent's court and create a much more dangerous situation for him. If you and your opponent are not too close to each other, the umpire may view it differently.
    Last edited by Loh; 12-11-2003 at 04:20 AM.

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    Originally posted by Loh
    In your example above, if I were the umpire, I will call a fault against you. Because you are preventing the receiver from executing a good lob or play another decent net shot with your looming and threatening body with the raised racket just in front of him. To make a good lob over the net in that situation is difficult enough, to lob over an additional barrier created by your raised racket become much more difficult. In other words, you are obstructing him.
    i have to disagree. technically, holding your racket above the net does not prevent your opponent from executing a legal stroke. theres no definition of a stroke on the l.o.b. but my guess is, a stroke is the motion of your racket towards the shuttle. once the shuttle is on the other side of the net, it should be fair play. there is no way a racket held above the net can prevent you from hitting the shuttle or obstruct your play except in the case that mag presented wherein you obstructed a follow through from a swing. your racket cant be classified as a barrier like the net nor an obstruction especially if it remains on your side of the court.

    i think it is more of a move in anticipation like running toward a corner of the court even before the shuttle travels towards that direction.

    unless its illegal to hit the shuttle while it is in an upward motion, i think blocking is legal.

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    Holding a racquet at the net near the opponent while s/he is making a lobbing shot can be considered obstruction because you could hit it down before the birdie 'technically' reached your side of the court. Faced with this threat, your opponent could be distracted by your racquet. As it's hard to determine where the contact is in case you do 'block' it down, the umpire could just pre-emptive that dillemma by faulting your blocking attempt.

    As mentioned by others in this thread, only way you could do this w/o faulting is if your face is close to the net and your opponent could drive the birdie (by taking it above the net)... in this case you're blocking with the racquet strictly in front of your face for safety. Blocking attempts at the net is legal if your opponents are no where near the net.
    Last edited by cappy75; 12-11-2003 at 07:16 AM.

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    Originally posted by cappy75
    Holding a racquet at the net near the opponent while s/he is making a lobbing shot can be considered obstruction because you could hit it down before the birdie 'technically' reached your side of the court. Faced with this threat, your opponent could be distracted by your racquet. As it's hard to determine where the contact is in case you do 'block' it down, the umpire could just pre-emptive that dillemma by faulting your blocking attempt.
    thanks for this great explanation cappy75. now i see why it could be faulted. is it safe to say tho that not all blocking attempts can be faulted? for example if theres a good distance between your racket head and the net wherein if you do a push in that space, your racket barely passes the net area. also, isnt it better for the umpire to wait until the blocking racket hits the shuttle before calling a fault?
    Last edited by quagmire; 12-11-2003 at 07:40 AM.

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    I think if you hold your racquet up, and the shuttle hits your racquet, that could be called a fault. If you hold it with intention to make a stroke, then it will not be a fault. The key point is 'intention'.

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