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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Default Tournament shuttle selection process

    In light of this article
    http://www.thestar.com.my/Sport/Badm...ing-on-it.aspx

    It got me wondering just exactly what is the process for selecting the shuttle speed for a big tournament. As in who is it done by who gets the final decision etc.

    I know roughly how shuttle speed is selected, someone hits shuttles under arm shots from the back line and then eliminates the wrong shuttle speeds (out of three choices) based on where they land relative to the doubles service line.

    This is not what concerns me but more who gets to make the call is it one person only is it the hosting association like implied by the article? is it the tournament referee? does the tournament referee have to come form a different country to the hosts? how many testers? etc.

    I feel this is one area in badminton that could be improved on so on the day it would be more accurate to fire the shuttles from a machine at a specific angle so there is more consistency with shuttle speed relative to conditions.

    Anyway a detailed account of how it happens for anyone in the know for a competition such as WC 13 would be nice

    Cheers

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    it doesn't really matter. if the shuttle pace is too far out then the players will get the TYPE/SPEEd of shuttle changed anyway.

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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    it doesn't really matter. if the shuttle pace is too far out then the players will get the TYPE/SPEEd of shuttle changed anyway.
    Within the rules the shuttle testing area spans 420mm, so almost half a metre from front acceptable line to back which is a massive difference in badminton terms but still acceptable so the players couldn't complain. So it does matter imo.
    It also obviously matters to the Malaysians according to the article. I have also heard players complaining about slow shuttle in some big events over the years and nothing was done about in nearly every case.( Schenk did manage to get shuttles changed before couple times).

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    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Pretty sure some players are asked to test the speeds at the start of the day/tournament. The problem is the playing conditions can change during the day/week as mentioned in the commentary once when Schenk called for new shuttles ...

    Thought I'd just as well read the article and strange to read they already know the shuttle will be slow? Perhaps because of the brand and type (Li-Ning A300?)?
    But in the same article: "For the record, during the world meet, the Badminton World Federation (BWF) will use shuttles with three different speeds. The players will be given all these three shuttles during their official training sessions in Guangzhou."
    Last edited by demolidor; 07-22-2013 at 12:36 PM.

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    The referee is in charge of shuttle speed. They do have a little temperature reader and humidifier to see if there's a big change in the venue that may require retesting of the shuttle. Like above readers have mentioned, the shuttle is tested beforehand by a player at the beginning of the tournament. That is when the referee will make his decision.

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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demolidor View Post

    Thought I'd just as well read the article and strange to read they already know the shuttle will be slow? Perhaps because of the brand and type (Li-Ning A300?)?
    But in the same article: "For the record, during the world meet, the Badminton World Federation (BWF) will use shuttles with three different speeds. The players will be given all these three shuttles during their official training sessions in Guangzhou."
    Exactly, very strange, you would imagine there must be something in it.

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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CantSmashThis View Post
    The referee is in charge of shuttle speed. They do have a little temperature reader and humidifier to see if there's a big change in the venue that may require retesting of the shuttle. Like above readers have mentioned, the shuttle is tested beforehand by a player at the beginning of the tournament. That is when the referee will make his decision.
    Thanks.
    So only one player tests, is this generally male or female? Do they get someone in good standing with BWF like say HKV. or does it not matter.
    Also the tournament referee does he have to be of different nationality to the host nation? And generally if a referee is presented with the test and from the different speeds 1 speed shuttle is outwith boundary, 1 speed shuttle on front test line and 1 speed on back test line. What one would he go for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigandy View Post
    Thanks.
    So only one player tests, is this generally male or female? Do they get someone in good standing with BWF like say HKV. or does it not matter.
    Also the tournament referee does he have to be of different nationality to the host nation? And generally if a referee is presented with the test and from the different speeds 1 speed shuttle is outwith boundary, 1 speed shuttle on front test line and 1 speed on back test line. What one would he go for?
    Yes, the referee will always be of a different nationality with the exception of possibly a local deputy referee.

    They generally take a male I believe, and it is someone random not long before the tournament starts. Usually they will test about 6-8 shuttles from a tube and from both ends of the court.

    What's outwith boundary considered as? As in wide of the court? Then there's some error in the testing process or something is really wrong with the shuttle to be curving wide.

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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CantSmashThis View Post

    What's outwith boundary considered as? As in wide of the court? Then there's some error in the testing process or something is really wrong with the shuttle to be curving wide.
    Outwith the testing marks as in long or short of the testing marks please see (bottom of page herehttp://www.bwfbadminton.org/file_dow...d=422927&tid=1

    Do BWF/ referees not use these testing marks as a boundary? If not how do they go about determining acceptability for these tournaments.
    Last edited by craigandy; 07-22-2013 at 01:21 PM.

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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CantSmashThis View Post
    Yes, the referee will always be of a different nationality with the exception of possibly a local deputy referee.
    Thanks again. Any idea why a chief national doubles coach would say this?
    Kim Her said that strong and powerful players from China relished playing with a slow shuttle and as the hosts, they may just use it during the world meet.

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    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigandy View Post
    Thanks again. Any idea why a chief national doubles coach would say this?
    Kim Her said that strong and powerful players from China relished playing with a slow shuttle and as the hosts, they may just use it during the world meet.
    Because it's to their advantage when their opponents are only able to clear 3/4 court.

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    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Because it's to their advantage when their opponents are only able to clear 3/4 court.
    yeah I mean the bit where he states "they may just use it" when we have established from the information so far that "they"(the host nation china) do not get a say in what the shuttle speed will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CantSmashThis View Post
    The referee is in charge of shuttle speed. They do have a little temperature reader and humidifier to see if there's a big change in the venue that may require retesting of the shuttle. Like above readers have mentioned, the shuttle is tested beforehand by a player at the beginning of the tournament. That is when the referee will make his decision.
    Not only players were asked to test the shuttle beforehand, even some of the coaches were asked to do so.. In fact, in one of the tournaments, Gopichand was asked to test the shuttle.

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    Sorry, I never got to read the article. Anyways from Grand Prix and higher level tournaments, the tournament is required to provide up to 3 different types of shuttle speed before hand.

    If all 3 aren't the correct speed? I don't know what the referee will do. Maybe tip the shuttle? Just a guess though.

    I have never seen them ask a coach test the shuttle before. That's the 1st I've heard of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CantSmashThis View Post
    Sorry, I never got to read the article. Anyways from Grand Prix and higher level tournaments, the tournament is required to provide up to 3 different types of shuttle speed before hand.

    If all 3 aren't the correct speed? I don't know what the referee will do. Maybe tip the shuttle? Just a guess though.

    I have never seen them ask a coach test the shuttle before. That's the 1st I've heard of that.
    Yep. Gopichand was asked to test the shuttle before Saina's match against Li xuerui in World superseries finals 2012.
    I am providing you the video of Saina vs Li xuerui's match where Commentator Gill Clark was saying that tournament referee asked Gopichand to check the speed of the shuttle . (Go to the timing- 2.07 minutes).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYLx7Q0KCJk

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    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CantSmashThis View Post
    ---snip---
    If all 3 aren't the correct speed? I don't know what the referee will do. Maybe tip the shuttle? Just a guess though.
    Tipping may not be allowed because it can be highly subjective and irregular, IMO. It coudl also be considered tampering by some people.


    I have never seen them ask a coach test the shuttle before. That's the 1st I've heard of that.
    I believe that shuttlecocks from only one brand (official supplier?) are made available at any tournament. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    If all 3 speeds from brand "x" who is the official supplier are not really up to requirement, can the tournament referee then under the circumstances, not ask for another "y" brand to be tested?

    These are of course, improbably remote cases. The top-quality shuttles from most brands are generally very reliable and consistent for speeds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Tipping may not be allowed because it can be highly subjective and irregular, IMO. It coudl also be considered tampering by some people.



    I believe that shuttlecocks from only one brand (official supplier?) are made available at any tournament. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    If all 3 speeds from brand "x" who is the official supplier are not really up to requirement, can the tournament referee then under the circumstances, not ask for another "y" brand to be tested?

    These are of course, improbably remote cases. The top-quality shuttles from most brands are generally very reliable and consistent for speeds.
    All tipping must be done by the service judge.

    The thing with that is that will get into sponsorship troubles. If Yonex is the official sponsor, and you end up using Li Ning birds, Yonex would not be happy. (Just an example)

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