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    Regular Member betazone's Avatar
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    Default doubles offensive strategy-advice needed

    Any experts here can verify whether what is mentioned in the video is correct? Thanks

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhEoKxvPxg4

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    Yes, but those videos are for advanced or competitive levels. Or at least good intermediate level

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    Correct. Will also require good to excellent shot placement and footwork for it to work.

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    That's how I do it anyway. Unfortunately I don't have the same partner each time so the cross court return gets messed up cause I'm not covered!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisha View Post
    That's how I do it anyway. Unfortunately I don't have the same partner each time so the cross court return gets messed up cause I'm not covered!
    Often happened to me too n to make matters worse my partner blame me for the smashes not sharp enough and ask me NOT to smash. Just clear or play a drop instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sautom88 View Post
    Often happened to me too n to make matters worse my partner blame me for the smashes not sharp enough and ask me NOT to smash. Just clear or play a drop instead.
    Thats why you shouldn't smash cross court that much. It is easy for your opponents to catch you on the wrong foot by doing a straight block/push. Straight smash or between the opponents is the way to go (at least most of the time).

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    Regular Member betazone's Avatar
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    I also have a big issue on who should cover the cross-court return - assuming I am smashing and my partner in the front. I hv lost counts the no of time my partner give me that "look", but hey as per the video the front guy must cover the cross-return.....I supposed I am vindicated ......( i don't hv a fixed partner, maybe that explain the confusion)

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    That is a tricky question because it depends from where you were smashing and where the defensive shot is coming to. As a rule of thumb you can say if the defensive shot goes towards the sideline the front player has to move, if it goes all the way back to the baseline it is yours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by betazone View Post
    I also have a big issue on who should cover the cross-court return - assuming I am smashing and my partner in the front. I hv lost counts the no of time my partner give me that "look", but hey as per the video the front guy must cover the cross-return.....I supposed I am vindicated ......( i don't hv a fixed partner, maybe that explain the confusion)
    If the return is kind of high, the smasher should still have enough time to retrieve it. If it is like a drive or a bit over the net height it should be blocked or taken care of by the front player. However at advanced doubles if the front guy is good he can help his partner n 'take over' n smash the return shot, especially if he can see that the return shot is going to opposite deep end of the other side of the court.

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    Regular Member M3Series's Avatar
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhmr...KN8rc9_xOn8N9g

    Watching this makes me understand much easier. But 1 thing for you to remember, NEVER cross-smash ! You'll get that "look" from anyone you play with. Unless your smashes could go 200 km/h, yes you can cross smash. I understand maybe you wanted to smash in between of your opponent and it would seems like a cross smash, but if your opponent have a solid defence, with just a push or a lift to the another side of the forecourt will only makes you and your partner backfired !

    Play a straight smash and let your partner covers like Cai Yun. .

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    Quote Originally Posted by M3Series View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhmr...KN8rc9_xOn8N9g

    Watching this makes me understand much easier. But 1 thing for you to remember, NEVER cross-smash !
    I wouldn't say never, but rather "avoid". If you use it sparingly, esp. when you notice your opponents are out of position, both on the same side in front of you (this happens), you should smash cross. This is also esp. so if your opponents cover their side "correctly" with their bias basing toward your straight smashes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raymond View Post
    I wouldn't say never, but rather "avoid". If you use it sparingly, esp. when you notice your opponents are out of position, both on the same side in front of you (this happens), you should smash cross. This is also esp. so if your opponents cover their side "correctly" with their bias basing toward your straight smashes.
    Agreed. But "avoid" is probably the wrong word, more like "very occasionally" - depending on your ability and the circumstances. Having a hard smash obviously helps, but good accuracy is just as important.

    In MD I probably play perhaps 10-20% smashes cross court, and probably 30% in XD. It mixes up the rally and keeps the opponents guessing. If my opponents shuffle over to the side I'm smashing from, I may play the short xcourt smash in the tramlines, or I may aim at the elbow of the opponent on the xcourt side. In matches, although un-gentleman-like, you tend to smash at the lady, who tends to have the weaker defence, often this could be xcourt.

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    If you're playing well-organized opposition, cross-court smashes are a horrendously low-percentage shot. By all means, be aware if the x-court defender is too central (esp. in mixed), but 10-20% sounds far too frequent. If you do smash x-court, the fore-court player will need to move across and backwards to cover all straight responses & you'll need to move across and forward to cover the rest.

    In my experience, too many people get too close to the net when the shuttle is lifted to their partner. This prevents them from intercepting cross-court responses, causing the attack to be lost. Whose shot the high x-court lift isn't always 1 partner or the other. In my opinion, if the rear-court player can get across, then they're better placed. After all, it's easier to move across to a shot, than backwards. However, if the rear-court player is struggling (which is the context behind the 'help the rear court player' video), then the fore-court player should be ready to go. It's up to the rear-court player to communicate, as they have the better view.

    Finally, if you have a left & right hand partnership, then each corner is 1 player's forehand and their partner's backhand. This may adjust the thinking behind who should go for what.

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    As in the mentioned video (offensive rotation) it is a mix between two systems called classic and wedge attack, unfortunately with not all their strengths and weaknesses explained.

    Here's a video from a german coach explaining wedge attack. http://youtu.be/8X6paZH7TIQ

    keys to this rotation are attacking between your opponents while every player covers his own half-court. variations are 80/20 wedge, where the front player sets 80% focus on crosslift/crossdrive defense and 20% to the straight block (which is the most dangerous counter to this rotation)

    Here's the video of him explaining channel attack: http://youtu.be/Nc5A6Elzc_Y

    keys to this rotation are consisent attacks longline while trying to force a weak return for the front court player to intercept. it rests on the theory that the shuttle always follows your racketmovement and players (even experienced) cannot always control the shuttle in pressure situation, therefor the frontcourt player anticipating an interception of a longlinge return.

    the classic variation is frontcourt covers frontcourt and backcourt covers backcourt. but i sincerly back the comment that many players get too close to the net, not being able to intercept a weak or flat defensive return.

    if you analyse a worldclass MD (which you should after watching those two videos) you'll see that they are playing situational offensive rotoations, depending on, what is called in the first video, the momentum. of course you need a partner who is aware of different rotations for this to be done, but it shows, that there ain't no unblemished rotation. everything that gains you a point is a working system

    on the topic whether or not to smash crosscourt depends on choice of offensive rotation and ability of opponent to move their defensive position. best example would be a pairing playing wedge attack while opponents are experienced to move their defense to the side of the shuttle, a cross court smash can be very effective, since the frontcourt player can easily intercept a longline lift/drive (difficult to master) and the backcourt player ist most likely to get a weak crosscourt defense (shuttle follows the racketmovement, forehand defense pointing crosscourt).

    and i genuinely know what you mean by "getting looks from your partner", since many players are not taught different rotations, rather than being narrowminded and choose to stay with the classic attack approach, which is solid, but demands a lot of footwork, especially for the backcourt player.
    Last edited by squaaaler; 07-30-2013 at 08:30 AM.

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    Regular Member betazone's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for the sharing so far....

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    I just wanted to add some things which are on my mind on double tactics.

    in my education as badminton coach I was taught a quote which never left my mind again.
    "in doubles one wants to attack bravely, aggressively, safely and variably". the stressing is on variably, concerning an even matchup.

    also I mixed up something above. the wedge attack bases on the theory "shuttle follows racketmovement" and channel attack on the theory, that under pressure a player cannot fully control his return, hitting the shuttle most likely to the direction where it came from, given the fact, that the attack was a well executed smash. a dropshot will never do the damage you want to do with this rotation, since it is based on a full smash. on contrary, in wedge attack you can predict and anticipate the defensive return, bringing your frontcourt player into the game, by simply attacking through the center, almost indifferent how you attack.

    for this, you have to try to stand close to your partner, regarding space dimensions. it leaves the frontcourt open, but as your partner is attacking, you can move your position. is it a drop, get closer to the net. is it a smash, back off and try to get the return.

    i can only recommend the videos I posted and the website of this coach. it is in german, but he does a really good job explaining theories and what they are based on.

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    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    And for one of the best examples of rotational plays and importance of shot placement, look no further than matches from Fu/Cai, Bo/Moe, Ko/Lee. Especially in the left/right combinations, pay attention to how they set up for each other. It's no accident where they hit where they hit.

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