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  1. #18
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    I have got to say this really is a strange topic... bbirdman says its not about coaching but about how much you play. I couldn't disagree more. Women are, typically, physically weaker than men. That means, when they start playing, TECHNIQUE is whats important - its the how to do it properly. Playing a lot, badly, is not going to help someone improve. Practising a lot, on the other hand, WILL help someone improve.

    I am going to be honest and say that at the clubs I used to go to, the women were treated very badly by some of the men (exactly as bbirdman is doing), in that the men have the "their not good enough to play sides" mentality, and as such, the women HATE trying to play level doubles. It is no wonder these women didn't really want to play all that much. Imagine having people muttering about how rubbish you are behind your back (on a forum to the rest of the world)... how much confidence does that inspire you with?

    And I am not talking about young talented juniors, but adults who have been playing for 10 years who never became good because they were constantly put down, told the wrong thing, and never received coaching. So, playing a lot does NOT achieve anything, unless you are playing properly - which you do NOT achieve unless the people around you are playing properly, which most men in league clubs do not. Hence, coaching is VERY important. Not just for the one person, but the whole sodding system.

    Now then, lets imagine that you are treating the women badly in this way... are they going to invite their friends to play? No. And im not surprised. Are they going to bring their children to play? No. And im not surprised. THAT is what is stopping them from playing - its the negativity of men in leagues that stop people coming and enjoying it for fun. This, in turn, stops more people coming, which stops better players coming.

    As a final parting thought, how would you feel if someone awesome walked into your club, with all the "strong" men you play with, and thrashed you and those other "strong" players, and then started complaining about how all the people playing badminton, men and women, are rubbish. In the same way you have done that to women in your club, is it fair for another person to come and do that to you in your club?

    Now then, I don't really want to have a go at anyone. Im sorry if I have offended anyone. However, the problem in almost ALL clubs in the UK is a terrible club culture of NOT PRACTISING. Not even warming up properly. And if you don't do that, and you don't treat each other with respect, then nobody improves. And nobody should be surprised.

    Whilst I do not think this topic is sexist, I think it completely fails to address the key issues. And if I were a woman, reading this topic, there is no way I would post, because there is so much hostility and negativity coming from bbirdman, as if they should "explain themselves"? They are the ones who are on a badminton forum, surely you should be going and asking the women NOT on the forum why they don't play?

    All the best.

  2. #19
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    If i was women I could get place at a on a team purely for being a women and playing. Its a lot harder for men. Its nothing to do with a testosterone advantage.

    If your female and play badminton you are guaranteed to get into a team. If your a male this is not so. Females are not commenting because they are not as keen. Please comment if you are out there

    Matt you probably play with the best femles. Thats nice. I have played with them its good. I can do 2 or 3 shots which weakens the oppositions defence and then the female finishes it off.

    I am considered a crap player despite being able to beat most league players at singles because I cannot play mixed with weak female players. You run around like a lunatic smashing, smashing and the female trying her very best not intercept or or do anything. just ducks and avoids everything apart from little drops at the net.

  3. #20
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    coaching is very important. but the best players are bascially the ones who have not only been coached but play the most.

  4. #21
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    Ive never ever put female player down ever. I feel they look down on me because i cannot blast out winners from the back. so much pressure when playing mixed I have to smash out winners thats all its about I end up hitting the net getting frustrated. and 80% of league games are mixed.

  5. #22
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Lightbulb More Mixed Doubles matches will encourage more female players to play

    Quote Originally Posted by demolidor View Post
    Your league format must be pretty crap then if there is "too much mixed"?

    A standard league match in Holland from the premier division to the very bottom one is 8 matches: 2MS, 2WS, MD, WD & 2XD matches.
    .
    Just to compare with our Doubles League in Melbourne, Australia; A team consists of 2 men and 2 women. Matches are 1MD, 1WD, 4XD (because each teammate gets to partner each of the other 3 teammates).

    BTW, in Melbourne, our ratio of men:women players is around 9:1 (this is just my observation).

    I am rather confused by the OP in saying - I'm all for encouraging females to play badminton. IMHO, one of the ways to encourage more females to play badminton is to have more Mixed Doubles in league matches.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 09-11-2013 at 07:12 PM.

  6. #23
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    Why should I suffer just to subsidize lack of female interest. cricket football basketball doesnt have this problem.

    A female can play for one year even less and bang shes straight into a side. I on the other hand have massivefully improve my ability to get into a side. Play for years.

    In my area some sides are folding because theres not enough female interest.

    And still how many females have commented yet. none!!!!!!!

    How many females are active members on here interested in the technical aspects of badminton!!! not many I bet.

    Yet competitive badminton in my area is about strange game of mixed. where the female serves then no way do you want her going sides. they are just not experienced enough to deal with it.

    When i first went to a club years ago I was not good enough I was directed o a lower badminton group I understood and went.

  7. #24
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbirdman View Post
    Why should I suffer just to subsidize lack of female interest. cricket football basketball doesnt have this problem.
    .
    Probably, you haven't been involved in mixed teams matches in cricket, football and basketball before. They often have the same problem - not enough female players.

    On the other hand, take a look at mixed teams matches in netball; They often don't have enough male players.
    .

  8. #25
    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    This is just how it is in the uk at a certain level. You have a few choices, basically forget about it and start organizing your own stuff.

    For doubles you could start your own club and just get a few guys and only enter MD league or forget about league and just arrange good games.

    For singles same for games but you could try starting a singles league. They ran one here. It was done on a monthly basis and it was groups of 4 or whatever. during the course of the month you arranged to play these people once, then it was updated online. At the end of the month if you topped the group you moved to the next group and bottom move group down. We had i think 6 groups of 4, worked well for competitive badminton and you always found a level which was good for you.

  9. #26
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    Regardless of where you think the problem lies, the solution is coaching and/or structured practice. This is most true in mixed. If all a lady does in matches is serve and play net shots, then that is all they will ever do by playing matches. It's a classic catch-22. They can't smash defend, so they don't defend the x-court. They don't defend the x-court, so they can't smash defend.

    Rather than question the commitment of the ladies who do play, the 'no practice' club culture is at the core of what is eroding the amateur UK scene. Practice improves the consistency of the stronger players & enables the weaker players to improve. The stronger members of a club need to realize that it is in their interests to help the weaker players to improve.

    That way, we may get the standard of game that we all aspire to.

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Line & Length View Post
    Regardless of where you think the problem lies, the solution is coaching and/or structured practice.
    My point exactly. Im glad you agree!

  11. #28
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    Women usually play exclusively at clubs and are usually proportionally the most coached players when compared to men in badminton in the UK.

    The problem is Im am a man
    Ive been playing badminton for 3 years about 4 times a week Ive watched lots of videos, I'm front court player. I win games against 1st division players but Im not very good at mixed.

    Clubs anwser go away mate you need a massive smash. A good serve and everything else means nothing.

    Thens theres
    I'm a female I am 135 years old been playing for 3 days and can just about do a save serve against weaker league player.

    Please please join our club.

    Sorry for the rant.

    League badminton in the uk is a bit like crown green bowling its for older people. Thats a good thing in many ways, you dont need to be fit to play doubles. Think Ill join when I am older.

    Good advice. I am going to set up a singles badminton group.

    GOOD coaching is reserved only for centre of excellence type youngsters. Being a level 2 coach means not much for the more keen players.

    If you've get half a brain the best form of coaching is the internet unless you have access to one of these centre of excellence type coaches

  12. #29
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    Wow - in my area good coaching is achieved by finding a good coach and paying their hourly rate for a private lesson.

    No disrespect, but if you have not been coached to some degree, you are unlikely to have the necessary racket skills to play high level league badminton. Whilst having a massive smash is very useful for some players, the best players in most top leagues I have played in (by quite some way), are NOT the ones with the massive smashes. They are the ones that have the best quality defence, drives, accuracy overhead, lifts to the back lines etc. Its the QUALITY of their shots, obtained through hours of coaching and practice, that makes them so dangerous. Its nothing to do with their smash. They can smash ok, because they place the shuttle properly, and its possible for anyone to have an effective smash, but they are not gifted with supernatural power. And this is very top league, full of county players, reasonable standard. The game is not dominated by the big smashers, but the people with the best skills and footwork.

    Out of interest, you say "im a front court player", which implies that you do not trust your skills in the back court or mid court. Is this true? Are you actually weak in other areas of the court? Or do you just enjoy being at the net? There is a big difference between the two.

    I know what you mean about team selection policy - because of the smaller number of women who play badminton, they get picked for teams more quickly than men. Thats true. But its not the fault of the women themselves! If better women come along, the worse ones won't play. The same as with the men.

    I don't understand what you mean by "proportionally the most coached players when compared to men". What on earth are you talking about?

    And as a parting note to everybody: anyone who thinks they can learn to play properly just by watching internet videos is sorely mistaken. A good coach will do more for your game in a year, than 10 years studying videos. Trust me. Been there. Done that. You really want to be good? Get a coach, and start practising!

  13. #30
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Please don't expect our female partner to play like a man

    Quote Originally Posted by MSeeley View Post
    Wow - in my area good coaching is achieved by finding a good coach and paying their hourly rate for a private lesson.

    .........

    And as a parting note to everybody: anyone who thinks they can learn to play properly just by watching internet videos is sorely mistaken. A good coach will do more for your game in a year, than 10 years studying videos. Trust me. Been there. Done that. You really want to be good? Get a coach, and start practising!
    .
    LOL. This is so true.

    Perhaps I am one of our few BCers who is a full-time professional coach here (in this thread).

    But let me say some points (through my experience in my professional coaching) ;

    * Many trainees who can't follow/do what is taught by what a coach teaches, often say that the coach is no good. They don't blame themselves in their inability to acquire the skill taught.

    * Many trainees who think that they are doing better by copying what they see via the internet videos; When told (by others) they aren't doing it right, often they say they are just following what the videos teach them. Perhaps, videoing themselves will reveal to them that they aren't doing what the strokes/footwork are showing.

    * etc, etc, ......

    By the way, I would like to comment on how a good Mixed Doubles is played. It is accurate placement of shots from both partners from each side. It's more like playing Singles; not just hoping to force opponents to lift (so that a smash can be executed, to end a rally).

    To me, the best executed shot in a Mixed Doubles is the 'push shot' (which causes confusion to opponents as to whom the opponent should play the return shot). It's nothing to do with power; It's just a clever accurate placement of the shuttlecock to cause confusion to opponents.

    Talking about international players - both male and female players (in their partnership) are often able to handle all situations. But at our lower level, females often cannot do hard smashes and/or return hard smashes.

    Therefore, please don't expect our female partner to play like a man.

    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 09-13-2013 at 10:57 PM.

  14. #31
    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .

    * Many trainees who think that they are doing better by copying what they see via the internet videos; When told (by others) they aren't doing it right, often they say they are just following what the videos teach them. Perhaps, videoing themselves will reveal to them that they aren't doing what the strokes/footwork are showing.

    .
    Wow, do you not film them as a matter of course? video analysis of their shot technique, with them watching would surely be the first thing to do, that is surprising. Just shows you how badminton is still stuck in the dark ages for coaching.

  15. #32
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigandy View Post
    Wow, do you not film them as a matter of course? video analysis of their shot technique, with them watching would surely be the first thing to do, that is surprising. Just shows you how badminton is still stuck in the dark ages for coaching.
    .
    You will need to understand how I am charging my professional coaching service fee.

    Trainees are usually reluctant to pay me for the time spent in showing them videos. If they pay me, I have no problem showing them videos of themselves.

    I work like how doctors, electricians, plumbers, etc, usually charge their fees. It's a fixed charge, whether it is for a 10 minute job or an 1 hour or more job. Therefore, most trainees usually video themselves and check it at home (to see if they have followed the instructions/demonstrations that I have taught/showed them). They usually don't need me there since I will charge them a fee.

    I sometimes also compare myself like a music teacher. Let the trainees tape/record how they have played a piece of music (to listen at home). If they needed my help on how to improve to play better or differently; they will come to consult me again (and I will charge them for it, of course).
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 09-14-2013 at 04:43 AM.

  16. #33
    Regular Member msitpro's Avatar
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    Therefore, most trainees usually video themselves and check it at home (to see if they have followed the instructions/demonstrations that I have taught/showed them).
    Chris-ccc, there is fault in your logic - only the very bright players will notice faults while watching themselves. I highly recommend that you analyse any video taken with your player(s)

    I can assure you that player(s) will also feel value in reviewing this during their paid session. If you do not review it and correct as you go along, well, "Practise makes permanent"


    - note I am not a coach

  17. #34
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msitpro View Post
    Chris-ccc, there is fault in your logic - only the very bright players will notice faults while watching themselves. I highly recommend that you analyse any video taken with your player(s)

    I can assure you that player(s) will also feel value in reviewing this during their paid session. If you do not review it and correct as you go along, well, "Practise makes permanent"


    - note I am not a coach
    .
    Yes, some trainees do involved me in reviewing their action during their paid sessions. I am not saying that no trainees don't hire me for this job.

    Anyway, the correction of technique is still the same (as how I tell them how; without watching the videos). It is true, if they don't believe me in what I have told them, the videos will prove it for them.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 09-14-2013 at 05:08 AM.

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