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  1. #18
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Originally posted by heating
    How about this?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3653921390
    i don't see anything wrong.

  2. #19
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    Originally posted by heating
    How about this?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3653921390
    Looks real enough. Another give-away is the plastic wrapping on the handle. On fake ones, the plastic wrapping is loosely wrapped whereas on the real thing, it is securely wrapped.

  3. #20
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    Ken,
    Welcome to the forum. Yes, the two racquets that you have up on auction are fakes! There no doubts about it. If you want more confirmation, check out the Yonex Badminton catalogue and you will see the grommet strip on the bottom half of the head frame on the real MP99.

    Another way to tell are the serial numbers on the shaft/cone. Yonex engrave the numbers using laser (so you should be able to feel the ridges) whereas the fakes are painted on.

    Originally posted by apeman88
    Bluejeff,

    Hey! On your last post... the last 2 items (ebay 3653531442 & 3653531325) are my auctions on eBay. Someone on eBay directed me to this forum. I am not a pro seller of racquets... just happen to have 2 which my brother purchased and gave to me as Christmas gifts... I don't play Badminton so am selling them.

    The 2 racquets were purchased in Taiwan around Sept 03 in a "LEGIT" badminton & Tennis Racquet store. This store has been around for more than 20 years and a lot fo people shop there. I really believe these are not fakes... would it even make sense/profit to produce fake racquets??? Is there that many out there??

    Anyway... please educate me and tell me why my racquets are fakes. If these are truly fakes... I will stop the auction and have my brother bring these racquets back to Taiwan to the store and demand an explination.... and a refund!

    If you want more detailed pics... I'll gladly provide them.... just tell me what angle and which part of the racquet you would like to see.

    Please help me confirm these are or are not fakes.

    Thanks!

    Ken Wu

  4. #21
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    Originally posted by heating
    How about this?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3653921390
    Pictures are not clear enough to tell if it's a fake, but I guess it's a real one.

  5. #22
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    Originally posted by kwun
    i don't see anything wrong.

    Materials: Ultimum H.M. Graphite, Titanium Mesh

    Is it real Ti-10 material? it seem different material from other Ti-10 auction at ebay

  6. #23
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    Those auctions that Bluejeff was posting about are still on!

    With 3 days or so to go, I guess there will be some 'lucky' winners.

  7. #24
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    Yeah the seller doesn't seem to care about what we told him. Should we take action since we are 100% sure it's fake?

    His fake racquet are getting full price of real racquet in ebay, thats sad. I can't beleive people can do that....

  8. #25
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    Originally posted by Brave_Turtle
    Yeah the seller doesn't seem to care about what we told him. Should we take action since we are 100% sure it's fake?
    Well here's a question, what action can we take? And do we really wish the profile of this site to be raised in that way? From first glance it seems cool, hell why not have this site be seen as a place for reputable advice on buying baddy stuff that's prepared to stand up for, and inform the common consumer. But there are quite a few downsides, legality for one, defamation, hacking, etc.

    Another thing is, publishing information on how to spot fakes isn't always a great idea. At the height of the anthrax scare, people kept ringing in saying they found envelopes/packages with a coloured powder. Anthrax funnily enough, isn't the colour most people think it is and the authorities could quite easily determine which were hoaxes by the colour. Then some large newspaper decided to publish a anthrax spotters guide to aid the public ... almost overnight it became a hell of a lot harder to spot hoaxes and authorities had to spend a lot more time and money to determine the threat.

    PS Just playin devil's advocate (again ;P)
    Last edited by Pecheur; 01-15-2004 at 06:48 PM.

  9. #26
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    interesting point Pecheur. it is a cat and mouse game. the mouse keeps moving and the cat keeps on chasing.

    so the question now, should we give knowledge to the consumer as well as counterfeiters?

    my vote on it is yes.

    your point is well taken, we are educating the consumer to spot and avoid the fake rackets, but we are also educating the counterfeiter to better make their rackets.

    i guess the real question mark is, "why do they need us to tell them?" they can spend a mere US$150 and buy a genuine MP99 and they can see the rackets in all gory details. they can make a perfect copy if they so choose to.

    the key is that they are not making a perfect copy, and the reason is that it cost them to make a perfect copy.

    eg. we know no grommet strip is a fake, if we tell everybody, we will force the counterfeiter to start making the strip, that drives their cost up and now they have less profit from their fakes. eventually, we hope that the more flaws we point out, the higher we drive their cost up and make it not economically viable to make fakes anymore.

    let's hope that will be the case one day.

  10. #27
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    The seller obviously doesn't care about it but money.
    Fine, I will let Yonex know about this then....

    GUESS WHAT WILL HAPPEN!!

    I have successfully chased, turned, and caught one seller on ebay who sells fake rackets 6 months ago, and I will keep on doing it!!

  11. #28
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    Originally posted by kwun
    so the question now, should we give knowledge to the consumer as well as counterfeiters?

    my vote on it is yes.

    your point is well taken, we are educating the consumer to spot and avoid the fake rackets, but we are also educating the counterfeiter to better make their rackets.
    This is completely the call of the individual (in this case Kwun), you have to consider the case though of some faker getting really grumpy with this site since they can't sell stuff and launching a DoS or more serious attack on this site out of irritation.

  12. #29
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    I tend to lean toward Pecheur's point of view. Let people come here be educated, we can't go out and police all the con artists out there. Beside the con sellers can think of reasons to sue BF or you personally or like what Pecheur have said, you or this site could be spammed and attacked. I can think of several ways for the con artists to sue right now already and i don't even sell rackets. If u still want to do it, do it at your own risk (your own server). Other BF'ers might not like to be drag into your conflicts. Beside con artists likely know more about rackets than u do. If u do tell people about BF, make it as a reference to badminton in general, NOT HOW TO SPOT FAKES.
    Last edited by cooler; 01-15-2004 at 11:32 PM.

  13. #30
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    I tend to agree with cooler and pecheur's idea.

    Overall, if we want to educate ppl, we can surely provide information (like sticky thread, FAQ, etc). However, do we really want to be the "police" in globe, with no official support from manufactures (like yonex) or legal representatives? This will let BC/BF/BR become the biggest target, and cost tons of un-necessary trouble for all the loyal members.

    I am not saying we have to back off. I just say, if some ppl post up a question (here!!!), we can provide answers, in detail. But it's more down to them to come and learn, if they are really careful and don't want to risk money. I've seen tons of cases, buyer should be able to spot fake without too much prof. knowledge. Thing like crappy serial # or Mp stripe might be hard to spot, but crazy model # (631Ti, etc) should be easily figured out, if they check Yonex site / catalog or give Yonex HQ a call for reference.

    Bascially, if we want to be the "police", let the victims come to us. We should not just suffering around, and try to be the shooting target by ourselves.

  14. #31
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    Originally posted by bluejeff


    I have successfully chased, turned, and caught one seller on ebay who sells fake rackets 6 months ago, and I will keep on doing it!!
    Jeff,

    I can understand how sad and frustrate u were. Overall, miserable buying experience on ebay might be one of the reason u start this thread. Of course, ur kindly help for other innocent buyers has good intent, but I don't think drag BC/BF/BR all along is proper.

    Personally, I even believe sometimes, a little bit lesson might be a good expereince in our life time. The reason I join BF, was because I was so lack of knowledge in equipment, and got into some bad deals earlier on. Since I want to learn, i suffed web, and lucky enough to get into this big family, and learned so much from others.

    Got ripped off by fakes, is surely not good. However, it's not like life threatening. We can't get the best deal everytime in our lifetime. So, how to prevent such cases, learn by urself, but not just sit down, lay back, and expect god to send some angles to ur house to teach u word by word.

    Therefore, think twice before ur action. There are thousands of members here, and all we want is to share expreience and to know more buddies around. I will be very disappointed to see BC/BF/BR sites become battle field for hackers or debate forums.

  15. #32
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    Originally posted by LazyBuddy
    Jeff,

    I can understand how sad and frustrate u were. Overall, miserable buying experience on ebay might be one of the reason u start this thread. Of course, ur kindly help for other innocent buyers has good intent, but I don't think drag BC/BF/BR all along is proper.

    Personally, I even believe sometimes, a little bit lesson might be a good expereince in our life time. The reason I join BF, was because I was so lack of knowledge in equipment, and got into some bad deals earlier on. Since I want to learn, i suffed web, and lucky enough to get into this big family, and learned so much from others.

    Got ripped off by fakes, is surely not good. However, it's not like life threatening. We can't get the best deal everytime in our lifetime. So, how to prevent such cases, learn by urself, but not just sit down, lay back, and expect god to send some angles to ur house to teach u word by word.

    Therefore, think twice before ur action. There are thousands of members here, and all we want is to share expreience and to know more buddies around. I will be very disappointed to see BC/BF/BR sites become battle field for hackers or debate forums.
    1. I know what you are saying and this has nothing to do with BC/BF. I never mentioned BC/BF on ebay or included what we talked about within any arguments sending out.

    2. This seller just emailed me back saying that he knows he is selling fakes. However, it just seems like he doesn't want to take down those auctions for his reasons.

    3. People needs to know what fake rackets are really hurting. It's the badminton players!!

    Here is a little route for easy understandings:
    If Fake rackets are popular -> Original badminton Companies will not profit ->
    Since they don't profit, they will close down their business ->
    since companies close down -> so will their dealers close down ->
    less stores out there means this sport will not be popular and less people will play this sport -> the life of this sport in danger.

    Another route for buyers who bought the fake rackets (could be BC members):
    They bought it without knowing -> rackets break down -> they send it to the company for warranty -> get into trouble -> frustration -> don't want to play anymore -> also endangers the life of the sport.

    (there are more scenerios than just above two as you can image)

    That's why I think this is a very serious issue. (not to mention people lose money)

    4. The most important one is, sitting here and talking to people is nice, but it will not help badminton as a sport because people out there are getting hurt. The more people get hurt, the worse the reputation the badminton world would be. (And I don't think we want that). That's why I am offering my help.

    5. This site is for people who wants to play badminton and know badminton. I personally deal with other issues outside here. That seller came here from nowhere( I didn't contact him before today), and it has nothing to do with me.

    This thread is to alert people (especially young people who doesn't have much $), for other actions, I wouldn't even post them here. So you don't need to worry.

  16. #33
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    To say that fakes will kill the sport would be overly dramatic / drastic IMHO....

    I started playing because of a cheap fake yonex ti-8. It was ok coz it was cheap, and then after a few months, and after having it break, i moved on to the real stuff. The point being, I wouldnt have gotten into badminton if it werent for the fake raket.

    If you will love the sport, you will love it even if the fake racket disappoints you at first. If you werent meant for the sport, then even if you have the bestest, most original, out of the cleanest, strictest qualtiy controlled factory, then that would be the first and last racket you'd ever own.

    Im just playing devil's advocate here. I'm not saying fakes are OK.

    Since I got my fake racket at a fake price, I dont have much of a problem with it. My beef with fakes would be if they were sold at the price of an original. Now that would be an issue... not a life threatening issue, but still an issue.

    Just my 2 pesos worth.



    BTW, i do admire your zeal bluejeff. It may be an uphill battle in your fight agnst fakers, but at least your in the think of it.

  17. #34
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    Exactly what specifically is the "target" of this discussion anyway, or intended result?

    a. abolish fake rackets?
    b. consumer awareness?
    c. persecution of unscupulous sellers?
    d. preservation of BF?

    Some are completely unattainable, but not all.

    -dave

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