Doubles questions...

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by JustinG, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. JustinG

    JustinG Regular Member

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    Been playing a lot of double with a buddy of mine and we are having some serious positioning problems. He claims that I am "hogging" his shots, and my claim is, I am in a better position to hit the shot, or he is catching the birdie way too low to make an effective shot so I hit it instead. Sometimes my buddy swings so late or catches the birdie so low, I really don't see how he can make a "good" shot. Anyways, we are both singles players, (more him than me) trying to expand into doubles for fun and more all round practice. I don't have any videos of our doubles matches yet. (they are really bad actually) but I was wondering if there are some good books or sites to visit that explains doubles positioning and the reason behind them. I really would like to continue to play doubles with my buddy but I'm afraid that if we can't solve some of our positioning issues, he won't want to play doubles with me anymore...Also, we simply can't agree on who is right or wrong in certain situations...it's really odd...Also, I never have these positioning issues when I play with others,( just him) if that helps... Just looking for advice and useful ideas to solve these challenges..Thanks!
     
  2. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    Three resources come to mind:

    1. Winning Badminton Doubles - it's a book with detail dissection, positioning, shot selection.
    2. Golum's Badmintonbible.com
    3. Lee Jae Bok's Doubles videos (Youtube). He also has an VHS instructional video on Doubles.
     
  3. lodoss

    lodoss Regular Member

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  4. emidyl

    emidyl Regular Member

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    aside from the recommended, part of your answer might lie in your statement above.

    Some people just aren't made out to play doubles. Maybe it's more a question of playing as a team more. And I can assume this happens more frequently while in defensive mode?

    Try and figure out why you don't have the same problems with other partners. What are they doing that he isn't?
    Do YOU play differently with him than others?
    Do you both play at the same level, or are agreed that one is a better or stronger player than the other?

    Just some questions you can pose to yourself and do the deducting.

    best
     
    #4 emidyl, Oct 29, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  5. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

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    Do you care about the scores. If yes, you and him should take double rotation lesson. Let the coach tell both of you who should hit the shots under different situations. Communicate between both of you is a must. If you decide playing double with your buddy just for fun, let him hit the shots. It is not worth to ruin a relationship for playing a game. Whatever happen on court leaves it on court.
     
  6. mater

    mater Regular Member

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  7. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    This is what happens when partnering with singles players especially both of them if they've never played doubles before. The best tactic for your opponents is to hit between you two all the time. ;)

    Understanding doubles teamwork and rotation play requires experience and watching others play. And oftentimes the problem is there is no clear cut right or wrong.
     
  8. mater

    mater Regular Member

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    I agree, singles players are used to going after everything, and may need adjustment to back off. Also doubles with either one or two alpha players generally have a mess on the court. One or both players trying to return every opportunity regardless of handling their part on the team. Just because one can reach it, doesn't necessary mean it's best for the team. Members must understand their part, they may get by against weaker opponents but at some point the team will face opponents that rotate like one brain on the court and expose all the shortcomings in the defense, while limiting holes for which your team can attack. Know where you should be, know why you should be there, and be there. Simple, right? Just kidding. :)
     
  9. JustinG

    JustinG Regular Member

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    Yap! I can't count how many points we've lost when the shuttle is hit between us. I think it's his, and I tell him it's mine because I'm closer and in a better position to hit it. He think it's his because it's on his forehand side but his position is not good to hit a good follow up shot. In regards to strength, I would say I am a much stronger doubles player than him. My buddy is really fast on the court, and so am I, and I know that is part of the problem with our positioning. You would think being fast would be helpful, but it can also make things confusing and more difficult. I would never let this ruin our friendship, but he is having a lot of difficulty understanding the game of doubles and I don't always have the best or "right" answers for him... One example that I recall from our doubles games was me hitting 3 shots from the back of the court and then lunging into the for a kill coz I did a really good smash...He thought I was hogging the court and that some of those shots were his...I said to him, "...sorry man, I had momentum and I knew after my smash I could go in for the kill after their weak return." Anyways, I'm pretty easy going on the court and I always tell him, not to worry about it, lets just keep practicing and it will eventually come...But, I fear that he thinks that I am the problem and not the solution because he claims that when he plays with others, he doesn't have the same difficulties as he does when playing with me...I also make the same claim; however, I've been playing badminton a lot longer than my buddy, and my badminton instincts are usually pretty sharp at reading shots and anticipating...I need to post a video of our doubles games for further help and suggestions...Thanks!!!!
     
  10. esppy

    esppy Regular Member

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    Sounds insane but how about a partner change?
     
  11. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    There's such an intangible thing as "partner chemistry". Difficult to define why and how, but sometimes certain players cannot partner together. Either due to incompatible styles, personalities, etc. I know this because in any group of players I play with, there's always one or two that I can't pair well with for those reasons.
     
  12. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    this is so true.
    and it applies to all levels of play. i've partnered with international level players in training and it just didn't work. of course you get the basic things correct with very good players, but some things just don't work when it comes to borderline situations. despite the fact that these guys play awesome badminton (and we had no problems of the court...). on the other hand, there are players with whom you step on the court for the very first time and everything works very well and after a few sessions you feel like you never played with anybody else.

    but don't push this idea too far! i thing any two doubles players should at least be able to get the basics right when playing together. this should be enough to play decently up to a quite high level (on which small differences are more important than in begiiners/advanced level doubles...).

    if you're both singles players, it might be a good idea to play with experienced doubles players for some time, who can show you how doubles works. it's an entirely different game!!! after you guys know how doubles works, you can try to partner again...
     
  13. llpjlau

    llpjlau Regular Member

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    I've had similar experiences with a partner who likes to swing big when defending smashes. Either side of him (i.e. backhand or forehand) he likes to put in a huge swing to flick the shuttle high up.

    Problem with this is when opponents smash down the middle. When my racket is already in such a position that I can place the shuttle back nicely for a counter-attack, he still swings wildly at the shuttle and it usually ends up clashing my racket.

    I've since refrained from partnering him. He never listens.

    My suggestion is to speak to your partner off-court. See if he's open to discussing the issue. If he is, then talk about your problems. If he is not, then partner him less or not at all.
     
  14. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I actually understand what your partner means. Now then, in this situation you described, several things could be going on. Given you haven't mentioned them, I don't think you are REALLY an experienced doubles player.

    Now then, if your last smash (the good one that you then killed) was played from MID COURT i.e. NOT the back, then you are right to go forwards to kill the final shot. You need to explain to your partner how doubles rotation works (short lift means the back player goes forwards). Thus, no more confusion.

    If you are smashing from the back, then there are two problems. Firstly, you WANTED to go forwards to kill your shot. If you were right at the back, you should be leaving the front to your partner. If you say "I had the momentum" you are not actually playing a team game of doubles. I don't care that you want to play the shot - it is not yours to get (notice that my opinion is VERY different depending on where you played that shot from).

    Perhaps more worryingly, you claim your partner is fast. Yet you claim you played a shot from the back. HOW did you get to that kill before he did? He must have been stood in the wrong place (a positioning problem for your partner), or you were not actually at the back (an awareness problem for both of you - you should be rotating), or your partner is not actually that quick (something your partner needs to work on), OR your partner is not sure what shot you will play where, and so can't anticipate this properly (a problem with your shot selection!).

    So, you see, there are lots of variables. I would suggest though, that the most likely thing is you are not playing shots from the back, but from mid court, in which case, he should let you go forwards and he goes back. However, there should be times when he does the same (hits from the mid court and follows forwards to the net).

    I hope you work it all out!
     
  15. longan_defense

    longan_defense Regular Member

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    Hey Justin,

    Couldn't help but notice your statement, "...sorry man, I had momentum and I knew after my smash I could go in for the kill after their weak return."

    If:
    1. you guys are in attack mode/position
    2. you smashed (back court)
    3. opponent had a weak return

    Then:
    1. This was your partner's smash (kill)
    2. He should have smashed it - if he couldn't, then he is out of position. If he could, then you would have trampled over him to kill the bird.

    Main issue here is you shouldn't have been able to kill that bird if your partner was in position because he would have been all over that.

    However, if your partner was in the correct position and weak return went over his head, it would be correct to assume that is your kill shot. He should then have taken a step up and ducked.

    Another however, if your smash was not in attack mode/position but closer to defensive position (side-by-side), then you are correct. It would have been yours.

    Hope this helps!
     
    #15 longan_defense, Nov 1, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
  16. JustinG

    JustinG Regular Member

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    Yes, we were in side-side position when I went in for the kill.
     
  17. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    How can you be smashing 3x from the back and be in sides formation?

    What @MSeeley said is correct - whose shot the kill is is not as clear-cut as @longan_defense makes out. It depends on where the prior smash was hit from.
     

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