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    Default International matches are getting longer

    Match length times are getting longer and longer. In fact probably not so different from when the old scoring system was in place.

    Should the scoring system have been changed at all ?

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    A premise has been stated that matches are lengthening. And that they are approaching the duration of pre-rally point scoring days.

    But before all the 'solutions' start pouring in, I'd like to know if the premise is true for most matches in a given tournament? Or is this an impression from a sampling of the marquis finals matches that we all watch?

    It is bad for spectators if each match is being dragged out by numerous towel breaks and interminable player perigrinations around the court after each point. But fans forgive such delays if the match is a dramatic exciting final between their heroes .

    So, is it a real problem? (I am not refuting, only asking for info)

    If so, the answer surely is to support the umpires in their efforts to maintain pace. I'd hate to see a stopwatch to time player's delays, but something like that may have to be instituted if time is throwing off schedules and boring the fans.

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    Well, you should construct the correct counterfactual:
    How long would the matches nowadays be, if the scoring system was still the old one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    Match length times are getting longer and longer. In fact probably not so different from when the old scoring system was in place.

    Should the scoring system have been changed at all ?
    The old system with only scoring on serve seemed flawed to me as there is no significant advantage in serving as there is in tennis, for instance. The rally points scoring system can seem a bit lengthy at 21 points per game but it's better than what we had before in my view. I think matches of 5 sets to 11 points were tried at one time to create more critical periods during play but it wasn't adopted.

    I've noticed in matches over the past two years that some players take liberties with time out and create excessive delays between points but I don't personally see it as a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fidget View Post
    ...
    It is bad for spectators if each match is being dragged out by numerous towel breaks and interminable player perigrinations around the court after each point. But fans forgive such delays if the match is a dramatic exciting final between their heroes .
    /takes mental note of new word learned for the day.

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    Football match-2 hours. Hockey-3 hours. American Football-3 hours. Tennis-3 hours matches are common, sometimes have to finish next day. Cricket-days. Table tennis-don't know,rarely watch cause always CHN VS CHN. If you want to compare in match to match basic, it is not long at all. Badminton tournament at this moment is very different from other spectator sports. Until badminton goes mainstream, at that time economic will dictate what the format will be.

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    You know just as I made my post about shuttle speeds, I saw your thread. Take a look at what I had to say about longer matches, particularly the most recent one between LYD/YYS and Endo/Hayakawa at the China Open.

    I think time wasting has been more common the last few years but the shuttle speeds have definitely slowed dramatically in the last few months.

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    Game too fast, too slow, too long, too short, too many rallies, not enough rallies.

    Dang... not only are the poor pro players earning a pittance, but they have to put up with commentators, spectators, and at home youtubers complaining of this?

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    Question Laws of Badminton - Are there new changes ?

    .
    I have just read this thread :

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...78#post2165478

    I thought item 3.1 and/or item 3.2 in the Laws of Badminton still hold.

    Any BCers knowing about any amendments, please do inform us.
    .

  13. #10
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    Default All England Finals 2010-2013 Time Taken for Matches

    I did an analysis of the above AE Finals and arrived at the following result:


    YEAR
    TIMETAKEN AVERAGE REASONS

    2013 222 M 44.4 MPM 1 RUBBER

    2012 224 M 44.8 MPM 1 RUBBER, 1 RETIREMENT (LCW)

    2011 233 M 46.6 MPM 1 RUBBER

    2010 330 M 66.0 MPM 4 RUBBERS

    (4-YEAR AVERAGE 50.45 MINUTES PER MATCH)


    CHINA OPEN 2013 (MOST RECENT)

    2013 250 M 50.0 MPM 3 RUBBERS


    From the above results, it would seem approximately 50 minutes is the average for each match. The finals are different in the sense that the events are competed among the best players available during the tournament.

    We have to take into account the standards of the opposing players/teams. If the level is too far apart, it will take a much shorter time, probably less than 30 minutes. Also in the event of withdrawals and retirement due to injury before and during the match.

    When the BWF first changed to the current scoring system, some of their main reasons were:

    1. Make it simple .
    2. Reduce the average time taken for each match.
    3. By so doing, spectators/fans can return home earlier.
    4. Players should encounter less injuries and fatigue if matches take a shorter duration.

    Apart from (1) above, it seems the other objectives were not met.

    The average match takes longer than the perceived 30 to 40 minutes.

    The skill level of most players has increased - thus they are able to stay on court much longer than before.

    It would seem some changes to the system are desirable, especially during round one when the most number of players will compete to advance to the next round. Shall we spread the number of days for R1/R2 or reduce the number of entries?

    To me the 21-rally point scoring system is acceptable but BWF has to take into account other factors.
    Last edited by Loh; 11-18-2013 at 02:21 AM.

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    matches getting longer, you must be joking? In the old scoring it was way too long. Now an average match last about 25 minutes and if it's 3 games played than just over an hour. In fact, the matches much shorter, in 30 minutes the match is over. In Tennis, to complete one set takes an hour.

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    Question BWF matches getting longer ?

    Quote Originally Posted by London_Player View Post
    matches getting longer, you must be joking? In the old scoring it was way too long. Now an average match last about 25 minutes and if it's 3 games played than just over an hour. In fact, the matches much shorter, in 30 minutes the match is over. In Tennis, to complete one set takes an hour.
    .
    Right now, I am following the 2013 Hong Kong Open SS tournament. 4 matches have just been played :

    * Mixed Doubles - 45 minutes for a 2-games match.
    * Mens Singles - 49 minutes for a 3-games match.
    * Mixed Doubles - 27 minutes for a 2-games match.
    * Mixed Doubles - 30 minutes for a 2-games match.

    BWF matches getting longer? - I don't think so.

    IMHO, a game of Singles usually lasts 20 minutes (without reaching 20-all). In Doubles, it usually lasts 15 minutes (without reaching 20-all).

    Link for source of info :
    http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sp...8-2CEAAB2DAE21
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 11-21-2013 at 12:55 AM.

  17. #13
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Question BWF matches getting longer?

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    Right now, I am following the 2013 Hong Kong Open SS tournament. 4 matches have just been played :

    * Mixed Doubles - 45 minutes for a 2-games match.
    * Mens Singles - 49 minutes for a 3-games match.
    * Mixed Doubles - 27 minutes for a 2-games match.
    * Mixed Doubles - 30 minutes for a 2-games match.

    BWF matches getting longer? - I don't think so.

    IMHO, a game of Singles usually lasts 20 minutes (without reaching 20-all). In Doubles, it usually lasts 15 minutes (without reaching 20-all).

    Link for source of info :
    http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sp...8-2CEAAB2DAE21
    .
    If reaching 20-all, a game of Singles can last 25 minutes; a game of Doubles can last 20 minutes.

    Let's study this closely (I am sure sure that BWF is doing so too.)
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 11-21-2013 at 01:02 AM.

  18. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by |_Footwork_| View Post
    Well, you should construct the correct counterfactual:
    How long would the matches nowadays be, if the scoring system was still the old one?
    Isn't what you wrote more of a hypothesis?

  19. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Right now, I am following the 2013 Hong Kong Open SS tournament. 4 matches have just been played :

    * Mixed Doubles - 45 minutes for a 2-games match.
    * Mens Singles - 49 minutes for a 3-games match.
    * Mixed Doubles - 27 minutes for a 2-games match.
    * Mixed Doubles - 30 minutes for a 2-games match.

    BWF matches getting longer? - I don't think so.

    IMHO, a game of Singles usually lasts 20 minutes (without reaching 20-all). In Doubles, it usually lasts 15 minutes (without reaching 20-all).

    Link for source of info :
    http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sp...8-2CEAAB2DAE21
    .
    I am almost positive these are similar times to the old scoring system. I need to go to YouTube and do some research. When planning tournaments in the old scoring system, we would plan for 1 game to be 15-20 minutes.

  20. #16
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Maybe those who attended yesterday's Hongkong Open for Round 1 could confirm whether they have run overtime against what was stated on the program fixtures. This will give a rough indication of whether the matches are taking longer than what was anticipated.

    Indeed there will be different timings for various events, depending on whether the opponents are of the same standard or otherwise. The wider their standards, usually during the earlier rounds, the shorter the match is expected.

    For the finals, competition is expected to be more keen and close - therefore a longer time is to be expected, unless injury or fatigue occurs to any of the players.


    For example in WS:

    Sayaka TAKAHASHI beat Jiayuan CHEN 21-15 21-14 in 30 minutes

    Busanan ONGBUMRUNGPAN beat Kaori IMABEPPU 21-17 21-13 in 43 minutes,

    Minatsu MITANI beat Pui Yin YIP 23-21 22-24 21-9 in 1 hour 8 minutes, and

    Ratchanok INTANON [2] beat Sindhu P. V 21-16 21-17 in 38 minutes
    Last edited by Loh; 11-21-2013 at 02:13 AM.

  21. #17
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Game too fast, too slow, too long, too short, too many rallies, not training allies.

    Dang... not only are the poor pro players earning a pittance, but they have to put up with commentators, spectators, and at home youtubers complaining of this?
    @gundamzaku

    I'm glad you agree...

    We should just enjoy watching the game... and appreciate the players for their efforts and dedication and sacrifices that they have put into their training and their passion of the game of badminton.

    It is their full mind and body on the line when they compete on the court. I just don't understand why we should mess around by slowing their shuttle speeds on purpose, eg at the recent Victor China Open.
    Last edited by visor; 11-21-2013 at 02:01 PM.

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