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  1. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by R20190 View Post
    The subject of this thread is about power. Not accuracy, consistency, difficulty in reading or how good the smash is etc. With that in mind, Setiawan’s smash is one of the weakest I have seen in top MDs. How effective his smash is, is a different topic of discussion – which as I’ve said before, is quite effective.
    The topic is weak smash vs. killer smash.
    Setiawan without any doubt belongs to the latter category...

  2. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4ckie View Post
    Who said this was about speed? The thread title says WEAK, and a weak smash can't be one that's scoring a lot of points....it has to be both slow and kind of predictable, and Setiawan still produces good speed when he really puts his all into it...if it were really slow, his cross smashes would get countered as are those of weaker smashers, yet he almost always scores a direct point with them.
    Well you can read it differently. But the way I read the intention of the thread (OP’s original post) is one that implies speed/power. And I believe many others who had replied to this thread, including yourself have focused on the subject of “power/speed”.

    Weak or Powerful is relative. The keyword here is “RELATIVE”. So let me put it into perspective. I have a 2 year old son, if you compare Setiawan’s smash with my son’s smash then yes he is very powerful but is that meaningful? If you compare Setiawan’s smash with the likes of the top MDs players, then he is (at least in my view) one of the weakest. I’m not saying he has the weakest smash in the world of professional badminton or has a weak smash compared to you or I, but one of the weakest in top MD. I reiterate, “in top MD”.

    Now, I disagree with the point you made about a weak smash can’t be one that is scoring a lot of points. Firstly, a smash is generally not usually expected to be a winner (unless your name is FHF) but a tool to force an error or a weak return that you or your partner can capitalize on. So even if he had a weak smash, it does not mean is isn’t effective at building up an advantage as he can do it by other means – which he clearly does this through extraordinary placement and accuracy. Secondly, whilst fast smashes are generally more difficult to return, sometimes slower smashes can upset your rhythm, perhaps due to a slight change of pace, or being unprepared for a slower shot. This happens a lot in XD, although we would usually expect the ladies smash to be easily returned, it does from time to time cause a problem.

  3. #37
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    Well, Setiawan has a slower smash, but still, I wouldn't call it weak. The thing is that he can get it decently fast, and forces players back in their defense with that. He has by no means one of the fastest smashes around, but we're not looking for players with not-outstanding smashes, but weak ones (by elite international standard of course, if you compare Adcock with me his smash is gonna look pretty damn lethal!).
    And I really don't see Setiawan's as outstandingly weak. I'm not quite certain what his top speeds are since he formed the current partnership, but I'm pretty certain I've seen 240s and 250s from him, which is not mind-blowing but fast enough by current standards (I can't remember a tournament with anything over 280 since the 2012 AE, tbh). Even Fu doesn't get to the magical 300 anymore these days, no idea if its due to slower shuttles, bigger halls or higher tensions...or old age Although if it were only age others would still get near, I think.

  4. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by |_Footwork_| View Post
    The topic is weak smash vs. killer smash.
    Setiawan without any doubt belongs to the latter category...
    As I mentioned above, I read the intention of the thread differently, given that he started off by saying "big smashes" - which implies power/speed.

    "Weak" to me would intuitively mean lacking in power/strength, i.e. slow.

    Now you may choose to suggest that "weak" implies a whole host of other characteristics but, this was not how I perceived the meaning.

    And how would you define a killer smash? This is such a colloquial term... but does it matter?

    Finally, no one has doubted that Setiawan has a good smash. I for one had always regarded it as an effective smash. But powerful? Not compared to the rest of his peer group of elite players.

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4ckie View Post
    Well, Setiawan has a slower smash, but still, I wouldn't call it weak. The thing is that he can get it decently fast, and forces players back in their defense with that. He has by no means one of the fastest smashes around, but we're not looking for players with not-outstanding smashes, but weak ones (by elite international standard of course, if you compare Adcock with me his smash is gonna look pretty damn lethal!).
    And I really don't see Setiawan's as outstandingly weak. I'm not quite certain what his top speeds are since he formed the current partnership, but I'm pretty certain I've seen 240s and 250s from him, which is not mind-blowing but fast enough by current standards (I can't remember a tournament with anything over 280 since the 2012 AE, tbh). Even Fu doesn't get to the magical 300 anymore these days, no idea if its due to slower shuttles, bigger halls or higher tensions...or old age Although if it were only age others would still get near, I think.
    Ok, we're slowly edging towards agreement here.

    I wouldn't call Setiawan's smash weak either, but amongst ONLY the top players, it will be near the bottom end - imo of course!

    If we turn it around and ask the question, how many of the top MD players are there that have a more power smash than Setiawan compared to how many have a weaker smash than Setiawan... I would suspect that we may find that there are more in the "more powerful" category. Probably not by much, but if we had to rank it...

    Although, as I have said, it is difficult to gauge this in reality as I don't really believe the numbers from the speed guns can be compared between tournaments.

  6. #40
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    When i started the thread it was focused on power and speed although in hindsight 'players with ineffective smashes' perhaps would have been more appropriate.

    Either way it's good to see discussion on the topic.

  7. #41
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    Before I give me two cents, let me say weak doesn't mean ineffective, just lacking power. Shin Baek Cheol hits very steeply and with good placement but the power seems a bit underwhelming.In terms of very successful but with a weak smash, the biggest candidate that comes to mind for me is a singles player. Hendrawan. Great? Definitely. Weak smash? Probably.

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