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  1. #936
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    looks like you really do not like a racket that takes a lot of time to master. zsp is quite demanding that i can not master it either. but there are few ppl mastered zsp and get great return which makes me jelous.
    my attitude toward this kind of racket is different to yours. a racket i can not tame does not mean it's worse.
    sometimes we got to admit that we ain't good enough.
    my perception about zsp is that it can be superb if one can master it.
    the problem is that most of us cannot.

  2. #937
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    Lift some weights and try again if that doesnt work out, i dont know what to do hehe.

    I played with my JP coded 4U ZF2 strung with VS850 blue at 25x27. I thought everything was perfect. Like the racket was made for me!!! I kid you not. I have a 3U strung with 66UM but I think 4U suits me better. Im more confident with shots. Maybe its the LCW syndrome

  3. #938
    Regular Member Maklike Tier's Avatar
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    A tool is a tool. If the tool doesn't work, it fails as a tool. It doesn't mean that the tool is awesome, it's you that's the failure. That's simply ridiculous.

    I used to think the rackets just shy of my comfort zone were a good thing because they 'made me play better' but now I think the whole idea is so misconceived I'm almost embarrassed to admit it.

    You play best when the racket disappears.

  4. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklike Tier View Post
    You must've lost touch with what it's like to be an intermediate or a casual enthusiast, because weight does make a difference. EVERYTHING makes a difference., and arguably it's intermediates who notice differences more. If you're a well trained and drilled high level player that plays or trains daily, yeah sure you can play with anything without much detriment. However, a few grams here and a level of stiffness there and mean the difference between playing and debilitating injury. Add age into the mix and that only makes it more critical.
    Exactly. Every little things affect the output result, be it minimal or marginal.

  5. #940
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklike Tier View Post
    A tool is a tool. If the tool doesn't work, it fails as a tool. It doesn't mean that the tool is awesome, it's you that's the failure. That's simply ridiculous.

    I used to think the rackets just shy of my comfort zone were a good thing because they 'made me play better' but now I think the whole idea is so misconceived I'm almost embarrassed to admit it.

    You play best when the racket disappears.
    Completely agree with all these statements.

    I've thought more about the "few grams making a difference" concept. Perhaps in specific situations/scenarios, it could - for example (just theoretical), if someone literally can't carry a 3U racket, then going much lighter would make sense. Perhaps a 5U or 6U would be much more suitable and comfortable for that specific person (but probably not, since they can't even lift a 3U racket off the ground...that person would probably need a 9U or 10U to actually play badminton). However, we're talking about a 3U and 4U (5-10g difference). I mean come on right? Are you saying that 20+ years ago, some people couldn't play badminton because the rackets were too heavy and they got injured etc? Okay, maybe your argument is that some people couldn't play as well (and got injured more) because the rackets were too heavy? I remember being 10 years old (maybe even younger) and playing with a steel racket with no trouble.

    I don't know, I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm just having a think about it. In my own experience, coming from much heavier rackets in the last 15-20 years, I really don't see significant performance gain or loss from the "tool". I've certainly seen significant performance gains from increasing fitness, improving racket technique and improving footwork. Real world performance gains and less injury risk from having a racket 5 grams lighter? I don't think so. But then perhaps some people's bodies do fit that "part of the bell shape curve" where a few grams (from 3U to 4U) really makes a big difference (I think it's just mental hehe...placebo effect anyone?). I suppose the question for such people is whether they should go from 4U to 5U or even 6U, especially if injury is a big concern...but then I've read and heard of people getting injured from the racket being too light because their shoulder swing speed is too fast etc! And so it becomes very confusing the more one thinks about it.

  6. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulstewart64 View Post
    I had my first hit today with ZFII. Wow a massive improvement on the last Yonex racket I tested Nanoray Z Speed.

    Initial thoughts are that this racket is shaping up to be a beauty and it's not just me at club tonight who thought so.

    Credit to Yonex engineers as the shaft is really responsive. Overall the feel of the racket was so much better, as though it actually had a reason for being rather than an excuse to introduce a racket that completely dails on all levels.

    It's still early days but this racket is shaping up to being a cracker. I can't say whether it feels better than my old VT80, but it's certainly made an impressive start.

    Paul
    www.badminton-coach.co.uk
    Paul, is that a 3U or 4U you are testing? From recent comments, perhaps you should be testing 4U hehe. I'd like to know what your thoughts are on 3U and 4U, since you have vast experience with coaching various people. Do you generally recommend children/teenagers (say age 8-14) use lighter rackets? Say 4U or 5U. And what about advanced adults? Does the weight of the racket matter a lot in your experience with regard to performance and injury risk? Do you think it's subjective and anecdotal (with an element of placebo effect) that certain people play better with a "4U" compared to a "3U"? Note that I'm not asking whether certain people play better with a 1kg racket compared to a 4U here - I'm talking about 5 grams difference, not 5kg difference.

  7. #942
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    You need a Thor to wield a jackhammer, but you need a more nimble type to frame the house. You fit the glove/tool -> to the man -> to the job.

  8. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    You need a Thor to wield a jackhammer, but you need a more nimble type to frame the house. You fit the glove/tool -> to the man -> to the job.
    There's no doubt that most people would play much better with a 100g racket compared to a 1000g racket. But I'm not talking about such differences. And sure, everyone should try to find "the right size fit", but playing badminton isn't just about "wearing a glove" - it's wielding a tool in the gloved hand with the right technique etc. I don't know, perhaps I'm seeing it wrong.

  9. #944
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    ^ I grew up using steel and wooden racquets. I had no problem using them as a teenager and thereabouts. I was fit, fine, and strong. And my technique sucked.

    Fast forward to 30-odd years later, 2 decades of cigarettes and other issues like an 8-hour desk-bound job, and I welcome 4U racquets like they are a blessing from heaven. Yes, I've tried (and still hang on lovingly to) 2U racquets but after one game at most, I quickly come down to earth. And my technique ain't too bad now.

    There are no definites, but there can be general guidelines. And the exception proves the rule.
    My 2c.

  10. #945
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    Careful cobalt, in another 30-odd years, you'll be welcoming 10U rackets as a blessing from heaven hehe! I think at that stage, it might be time to consider playing table tennis instead!

  11. #946
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    I greup using steel rackets too with my first racket Carlton 4.3. It took me a while before i got a lighter racket in the Carlton 3.7 series.

    I got my first Yonex racket in 1982, Carbonex 8 - oh now there was a racket!

    The ZFII is a 3UG4.

    Generally I let kids pick up a racket and use it. I remember many years ago when Talbot brought out a superlight racket. One of my students used it. In a tournament he broke a string. I took the racket and repaired it. He changed to a standard racket during this time and was progressing through the game very well. Once I returned the racket and he switched, he subsequently lost a run of points and lost the match. Lesson learned was that the lighter racket had, over time taken some of his power away and this is what concerns me with rackets like Flashboost. You get an initial boost because your muscles have been used to working hard and suddenly they continue the same work rate with amazing results. These results may wear off over time.

    So for kids i tend to give them a standard weighted racket. in UK we are limited to what each manufacturer offers us. It's interesting this year that the likes of Yonex, Victor etc have introduced more 4U rackets into their range, partly to create better differentiation in the range.

    With tolerances being relatively narrow, it's feasible to have between 1-9g difference between two differing weights in rackets. At the bottom end of the scale I doubt anyone will nottice the difference, however 9g is a lot.

    I think you also need to be careful over weights. With head heavy rackets I've found 4U to be an advantage in terms of speed without losing too much in terms of power. Whereas some of the other frames can feel a bit thin and unresponsive compared to the 3U version. Depending on the experience of the player, I'm sure some would not notice the difference between the various weights, however players who really study rackets will have a better idea.

    Whilst it would be great to have on offer 3U, 4U and different grip sizes, UK market is simply too small.

    I hope this helps.

    Paul
    www.badminton-coach.co.uk

  12. #947
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    My 3U G4 ZF2 has wet BP of 300mm (strung with bg80, one RKEP G09 overgrip on the stock grip), which is pretty good news for me.

  13. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssj100 View Post
    Careful cobalt, in another 30-odd years, you'll be welcoming 10U rackets as a blessing from heaven hehe! I think at that stage, it might be time to consider playing table tennis instead!
    In another 30-odd years I will be in heaven!

  14. #949
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    In another 30-odd years I will be in heaven!
    I sure hope there's badminton there... If there isn't, I ain't going.

  15. #950
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    So, recapitulated> ZF2 got an more balanced BP as a ZF? My ZF (4U/G4 with BG80 and overgrip on the stock) got a BP of 310! My Arc11 with the same config, but 3U/G4 BP300! I know. that you can't compare this rackets really, but in my mind, that is the main difference between these two! So will ZF2 tend more in the Arc11 kind or will it be such powerful as ZF? The lacking of the netplay regarding my ZF in contrast to my Arc11 is all to obvious! So could it be the case, that ZF2 is a racket offering both qualities?? That would be heaven for me!!!
    Can someone compare the ability of netplay of Arc11 and ZF2??

  16. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulstewart64 View Post
    I had my first hit today with ZFII. Wow a massive improvement on the last Yonex racket I tested Nanoray Z Speed.

    Initial thoughts are that this racket is shaping up to be a beauty and it's not just me at club tonight who thought so.

    Credit to Yonex engineers as the shaft is really responsive. Overall the feel of the racket was so much better, as though it actually had a reason for being rather than an excuse to introduce a racket that completely dails on all levels.

    It's still early days but this racket is shaping up to being a cracker. I can't say whether it feels better than my old VT80, but it's certainly made an impressive start.

    Paul
    www.badminton-coach.co.uk

    May I know what string are you using? I found mine not so responsive as the shaft kinda woody.

  17. #952
    Regular Member Maklike Tier's Avatar
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    I found the original Z-Force kinda planky, too. Like the shaft didn't do anything except keep the head away from your hands It certainly didn't give you any feedback on the shot you just played, but I just chalked it all up to me not actually being any good

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