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  1. #18
    Regular Member ein_roboter's Avatar
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    I see ladies performing this service more often than the guys. Other notable female players with a tremendous high service are Eriko Hirose and Ratchanok's team mate Busanan Ongbumrungpan. Indeed it can be quite tricky how to response on such a service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raymond View Post
    Saying that "it is quite ok", I think, is an understatement. Have a look at 2001 All England semi-final:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A12aj8K-deU

    Peter Gade used a lot of very high serves. For the most part, GopiChand can only attempt to neutralize the serves with clears. To talk about speed in moving back and smash, then I guess we're not talking about the same high serves. As discussed, you don't really need to move particularly fast as it'd take a relatively long while for the shuttle to drop to hittable level. And a smash really is not advisable - it'll be slowed down, and it'd have to be flatter, while the server, presumably at about same level as the receiver, would be waiting patiently and ready to make you run the full diagonal.

    The change in style to predominately low/flick based is interesting. It may have to do with its versatility - it doesn't require a very high ceiling, and thus it's very portable (not all gyms have that high ceilings, esp. at local tournaments). I'd like to hear others' views as to why high serves (I mean the really high ones) are not used more often.
    I don't think Peter Gade use the high serve anymore right?
    I think there is a shift somewhere. either footwork (better faster footwork) or because of the new scoring system (less focus on stamina and focus more on speed and burst of power. and less focus on tiring your opponent).
    if none of top class players (in these recent years) use it, then there must be a fatal flaw in it.
    such as sautom88 said, one of them might be because low serve limits the selection of the shots.

    high serve:
    smash, drop, clear. all of these can be disguised one and another since the movement is almost the same (drop disguised as a smash, or smash as a clear)
    and plus returning each of them requires different preparation such as:
    smash: in the returning position / middle
    drop: move to the front
    clear: move to the back

    low serve:
    net shot / lift (it can be disguised, but look at the point below)
    netshot: move to the front
    lift: move to the back
    less variation on where to move (plus less chance the opponent can kill with smash)

    and the main point is that opponent cannot do an attacking shot at all. it will gives the server advantage which they can attack in case their opponent lift

    Quote Originally Posted by ein_roboter View Post
    I see ladies performing this service more often than the guys. Other notable female players with a tremendous high service are Eriko Hirose and Ratchanok's team mate Busanan Ongbumrungpan. Indeed it can be quite tricky how to response on such a service.
    don't forget Susi Susanti
    her serve preparation looks very elegant (I think new players also copy it)

    I think it is more because of female posture
    on average, women (esp asian) are not as tall as men. meaning their legs are not as long as men and cannot move as far as (and as long as) men. it will be harder for them to move back really fast and receive the high serve
    plus their power might be lacking (resulting in less power in smash).
    Last edited by Avenger; 01-18-2014 at 08:01 PM.

  3. #20
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    yeah..same principle also at double..when u lift high enough at the base line it will be difficult to smash when shuttle come down very straight..have to jump smash to reach at point when shuttle are not very straight...but for women double who are not jump smash they will control the angle of smash even shuttle come down straight

  4. #21
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    @Avenger : You must have missed descriptions on the properties of a good high serve discussed here. And I'm not sure why you keep bringing up movement speed as a factor in receiving such serves.

    It's true that Peter (and other male players) seldom uses such a high serve these days, I'm still wondering why. Once again, unless we disagree on the premise that such serves (esp. when serve deep, to the point receiver's feet are behind 2nd back line) can't be easily hit down.

  5. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymond View Post
    @Avenger : You must have missed descriptions on the properties of a good high serve discussed here. And I'm not sure why you keep bringing up movement speed as a factor in receiving such serves.

    It's true that Peter (and other male players) seldom uses such a high serve these days, I'm still wondering why. Once again, unless we disagree on the premise that such serves (esp. when serve deep, to the point receiver's feet are behind 2nd back line) can't be easily hit down.
    that is if the server can do it perfectly every single time. I doubt even pro will risk to use high serve every single time when knowing that it is also could be out.

    why I always said speed? because if they can get in the place on time, they can do whatever they want with it. even without being able to hit perfectly because they can't hit the head of the shuttle.
    LCW or LD might be gladly smashing the shuttle when other players used a high serve, and then move to the front like wind if needed.

    not sure if I answer your question or not.
    my main point is that: high serve is good if your opponent is only around average players. pros are able to take it easily and can do whatever shot they want with it. if this answer is not satisfactory, then maybe another member can clear it up as I already tell why high serve does not work against better players

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    that is if the server can do it perfectly every single time. I doubt even pro will risk to use high serve every single time when knowing that it is also could be out.
    In the 80's ALL singles players do drills for high serves. If u are playing at competition level, 9 out of 10 your high serves has to fall in between the rear doubles and singles service lines. That was one of my earlier drills when I was training to play singles for my junior college in Singapore in 1980. If u train properly for it, it will be a piece of cake compared to other shots because there is no pressure, it is the 1st shot in the rally.

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sautom88 View Post
    In the 80's ALL singles players do drills for high serves. If u are playing at competition level, 9 out of 10 your high serves has to fall in between the rear doubles and singles service lines. That was one of my earlier drills when I was training to play singles for my junior college in Singapore in 1980. If u train properly for it, it will be a piece of cake compared to other shots because there is no pressure, it is the 1st shot in the rally.
    *let's just say I am just assuming here since I am not even in this world until late 80s
    I think on the 80s, there are much less pressure.. maybe because the old rule is still there (the server will not lose point if they lose the rally, only changing the server)

    right now, 1 mistake might costs the player the tide of the game. plus, pros can reach it easily without too much effort and being able to move to the front really fast if needed.

    **I am thinking if the weight of the racket (being 100+ gr) might also contribute to the high serve in 80s and 90s?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    ... if the weight of the racket (being 100+ gr) might also contribute to the high serve in 80s and 90s?
    What does the weight of the racket have anything to do with high serves in singles? For the pros 2U or 3U does not make any difference because they trained EVERYDAY with it. Fu Hai Feng will not say that I cannot do that powerful of a jumpsmash if I am using 2U rackets. He might say that he might can only do 100 of such smashes instead of 120 if he were to use 2U rackets.

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sautom88 View Post
    What does the weight of the racket have anything to do with high serves in singles? For the pros 2U or 3U does not make any difference because they trained EVERYDAY with it. Fu Hai Feng will not say that I cannot do that powerful of a jumpsmash if I am using 2U rackets. He might say that he might can only do 100 of such smashes instead of 120 if he were to use 2U rackets.
    yeah, which is why I said, might be, I am asking a question here
    because I am thinking it is much harder to swing when it is 100+gr instead of 85gr. but yeah, I don't think pro cannot handle it
    thanks for the explanation

  10. #27
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    generally speaking, for most players (i.e. players that are not on international level) it is better to do high serves in singles.

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sautom88 View Post
    Are u sure? Is this the one, Candra Wijaya/Sigit Budiarto vs Cheah Soon Keat/Yap Kim Hock match, Sigit serving @27.24?
    That is just a regular low serve.
    Hmm, my memory is failing me. I am positive there was a drive serve in an important match final.

  12. #29
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    Interesting that Nguyen was serving high a number of times against Peter @ around 11:00.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du3jLarHBu4

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