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  1. #18
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    My kids tend to land hard with the leading foot and with the foot turned inwards. I am working on correcting these. Trying to work in the concept of after the placement of the lunge, the knee and muscles act like a spring to absorb the force.

  2. #19
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    catman, if you've seen fencing, you'll understand how a lunge is performed. Go watch it on YouTube if you haven't.

  3. #20
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    I'll have to look up the appropriate articles/studies, but landing on the midfoot/forefoot is only "better" in the context of running. A natural/healthy walking gait has the heel-to-toe roll we want to do in lunges. That heel-toe roll does absorb shock. (I'll be back with articles/studies, if you want)

    The "proper" running gait and walking gait are very different, because the forces involved are different. The forces in lunging in badminton are also different from running. When you run, you land and the push to propel yourself forward. In badminton, you lunge to stop movement, and the recovery movement is separate

  4. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    catman, if you've seen fencing, you'll understand how a lunge is performed. Go watch it on YouTube if you haven't.
    I did check out fencing before I started the thread here - the do the heel first.

  5. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmashAndDash View Post
    I'll have to look up the appropriate articles/studies, but landing on the midfoot/forefoot is only "better" in the context of running. A natural/healthy walking gait has the heel-to-toe roll we want to do in lunges. That heel-toe roll does absorb shock. (I'll be back with articles/studies, if you want)

    The "proper" running gait and walking gait are very different, because the forces involved are different. The forces in lunging in badminton are also different from running. When you run, you land and the push to propel yourself forward. In badminton, you lunge to stop movement, and the recovery movement is separate
    I read heel to toe gait only can be done if you wear shoes. Barefoot people do not walk that way. I play a lot of tennis and was having a lot foot problems - and started walking around barefoot especially outside on the grass (back yard) and it took me a while to learn to walk properly without my shoes. Putting the forefoot down then the heel was much better for me. But it is completely different than with shoes. My feet problems have all disappeared - apparently walking on uneven surfaces barefoot is like a foot massage for the feet.

    Here are the videos that got me started on this road:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erorsuyJKiQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPdb7ZDJKS4
    Last edited by catman; 01-20-2014 at 01:41 AM.

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    I end up lunging because I'm late getting to the shuttle - mostly on drops at the net. But I don't land softly, I didn't even realize you can land softly on a lunge. I am about 20lbs over weight. I need to investigate lunging technique if I'm supposed to land it softly. Thanks.
    That would be a deep lunge, assuming you're getting low to catch a late bird. When I say land "softly" I don't mean a silent landing. There will always be a somewhat hard landing, but some people (usually new players, from what I've noticed when coaching) tend to "stomp" when they land. I usually manage to correct this when I tell them to roll heel-to-toe.

    The new players were "stomping" because they were trying to both stop moving and push off at the same time while landing. With the heel-toe roll, they manage to stop better, and then push off with the forefoot.

    Also, a short article on heel-toe vs toe-heel walking, with sources listed under the article: http://www.livestrong.com/article/55...-heel-walking/

    IMO, walking might be a more similar situation to lunging than running. Why? Because the angle your leg contacts the ground at is a bit more similar when walking than running. Ideally, when you run, you contact the ground either directly below, or behind you. When you walk, you contact the ground in front of you, like when you lunge.

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmashAndDash View Post
    That would be a deep lunge, assuming you're getting low to catch a late bird. When I say land "softly" I don't mean a silent landing. There will always be a somewhat hard landing, but some people (usually new players, from what I've noticed when coaching) tend to "stomp" when they land. I usually manage to correct this when I tell them to roll heel-to-toe.

    The new players were "stomping" because they were trying to both stop moving and push off at the same time while landing. With the heel-toe roll, they manage to stop better, and then push off with the forefoot.

    Also, a short article on heel-toe vs toe-heel walking, with sources listed under the article: http://www.livestrong.com/article/55...-heel-walking/

    IMO, walking might be a more similar situation to lunging than running. Why? Because the angle your leg contacts the ground at is a bit more similar when walking than running. Ideally, when you run, you contact the ground either directly below, or behind you. When you walk, you contact the ground in front of you, like when you lunge.
    Interesting article. My personal experience has been consciously moving to a toe - heel gait in running and walking has gotten rid of all my feet problems. Not sure if I'm expending more energy or not.
    It might be the book barefoot running where they say only populations with shoes have the heel - toe gait. In countries where wearing shoes are not the majority the toe-heel gait is more common.

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Interesting article. My personal experience has been consciously moving to a toe - heel gait in running and walking has gotten rid of all my feet problems. Not sure if I'm expending more energy or not.
    It might be the book barefoot running where they say only populations with shoes have the heel - toe gait. In countries where wearing shoes are not the majority the toe-heel gait is more common.
    I'm really not a fan of barefoot running. (I'm actually just not a fan of evolutionary biology, evolutionary psychology, or any type of science that sticks "evolutionary" in front of itself, but that's another can of worms). I have a long lengthy reply explaining my opinion of the ideology on barefoot running, but that's a bit off topic.


    Going back a little more on topic. Forefoot vs Heel strike
    http://www.usatriathlon.org/about-mu...te-022812.aspx

    One of the points in the above article is the there is a good type and bad type of heel strike. It's probably more common for new or bad runners to do a "bad" heel strike, which is why the heel strike has been blamed for running injuries.

    Going even more on topic, the lunge is a critical movement in badminton. If you are choosing to lunge, you must do a heel strike, or you will sustain injuries, as 0ozafo0 stated (Post #12).

    If you choose to NOT lunge, then we have provided an alternative stop, where you use both legs to do a staggered stop. The trade off is that if you want to catch a low shot, you will have to bend with your back (which is really, really, bad in the long run).

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmashAndDash View Post
    That would be a deep lunge, assuming you're getting low to catch a late bird. When I say land "softly" I don't mean a silent landing. There will always be a somewhat hard landing, but some people (usually new players, from what I've noticed when coaching) tend to "stomp" when they land. I usually manage to correct this when I tell them to roll heel-to-toe.

    The new players were "stomping" because they were trying to both stop moving and push off at the same time while landing. With the heel-toe roll, they manage to stop better, and then push off with the forefoot.

    .....
    Nice point.

  10. #27
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    Catman,

    you sound pretty intent on avoiding the lunge. What I can say is that the lunge is an evolutionary process developed over many generations of badminton players. You can see on old badminton videos back in the 1940's or earlier that the lunge is very rudimentary. You may also see examples of overstepping such as I described earlier and seen in many social players of today.

    Avoiding the lunge in badminton can be done, but the limitations are now very apparent with certain exceptions. If you accept those limitations, then that's ok. It doesn't need a thesis on running which cannot be extrapolated to the lunge.

  11. #28
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    Yes, I've received some excellent suggestions. Thank you all very much. As I mentioned earlier, just looking for the best solution to save wear and tear on the body.

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