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  1. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcll99 View Post
    how to use ADAMS

    Looks like it is based on Google Calendar!! Anyone else think so?

  2. #70
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigH-Max View Post
    I know how to read, thanks.
    Have you ever thought that the problem comes from the rules themselves? The whereabouts system is clearly a pain to follow.
    Do you also think BWF and their lousy round robin system was not to be blamed for the DQ of the 4 pairs at the 2012 Olympics? Instead of blindlessly abiding by the rules, one should see if they are not causing the problem to start with. Read this, for example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/front_page/7870729.stm
    The BBC story is from 2009... and, what's bizarre is that the BAC was complaining about the whereabouts rules after having agreed to follow them.

    For the record, nothing resulted from this complaint. After all, the revised rules implemented in January 2009 were drawn up in consultation with (and with the agreement of) over 140 international sports administration bodies.

    Note: The requirements pertaining to the "whereabouts information" are the same for all sports.

    The current IST Code (International Standard for Testing) was last revised in 2012. This covers the rules for testing, identification, security, transportation, notification and, yes, whereabouts information.

    As they now stand, it seems sportspersons with disciplined, professional schedules are OK with them.

  3. #71
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigH-Max View Post
    I know how to read, thanks.
    And yet, you chose to mention that they failed the drug test? Explain.

    Have you ever thought that the problem comes from the rules themselves? The whereabouts system is clearly a pain to follow.
    Do you also think BWF and their lousy round robin system was not to be blamed for the DQ of the 4 pairs at the 2012 Olympics? Instead of blindlessly abiding by the rules, one should see if they are not causing the problem to start with. Read this, for example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/front_page/7870729.stm
    Well, you can keep blaming everyone else for your shortcomings or for the decisions you take in life. Or, you could clearly comprehend why the rules have been formulated, and that any rule by its very existence will always give rise to an exception. Or you can also comprehend that some people will always find excuses for living outside the law.

    "BWF and their lousy round-robin system" (and I agree with your sentiment ) has nothing at all to do with the WADA rules and regulations. Why would you want to justify one act of wilful negligence with another act of incredible stupidity? I have read the WADA rules, and the BWF regulations, 2009 as well as the 2010 amendments. They look good. They are not impossible to comply with. They are not even a pain in the butt to comply with, else a lot of other prima donnas on the badminton circuit would be unavailable for testing.

    More to the point, they are necessary to ensure the game is kept clean -or at least as clean as possible. And again, the WADA and BWF initiative to educate players and associations and keep them updated with information and procedures is pretty well documented and executed.

    I'd love to find an excuse on behalf of the players, but in all fairness, I cannot. The bottom line is always, ignorance of the law does not excuse. And to be honest, the players or association in this regard weren't exactly ignorant of the law, either. They were just plain negligent (you could even insert another word in vogue on forums: "arrogant") or just chose to not take it seriously enough.

  4. #72
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    BWF Registered Testing Pool
    First Quarter January to March 2014
    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file.aspx?id=520605&dl=1

    BWF help guide on Whereabouts Information (in compliance with WADA rules.)
    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file.aspx?id=529036&dl=1

    A separate Location Form is also available for download and manual submission in the rare case that a player is unable to access ADAMS to complete or update the whereabouts information.



  5. #73
    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    The BBC story is from 2009... and, what's bizarre is that the BAC was complaining about the whereabouts rules after having agreed to follow them.

    For the record, nothing resulted from this complaint. After all, the revised rules implemented in January 2009 were drawn up in consultation with (and with the agreement of) over 140 international sports administration bodies.

    Note: The requirements pertaining to the "whereabouts information" are the same for all sports.

    The current IST Code (International Standard for Testing) was last revised in 2012. This covers the rules for testing, identification, security, transportation, notification and, yes, whereabouts information.

    As they now stand, it seems sportspersons with disciplined, professional schedules are OK with them.
    Not so bizarre, with people's preconceived ideas about things, there would have just been an assumption that British athletics was not clean. With this same idea that final statement is not entirely true, They are "OK" because it is forced upon them, They still have big problems with it. (stories everywhere) http://cyclingtips.com.au/2012/02/li...e-whereabouts/ check out the story in this one even disciplined folk get caught out under completely understandable situations, you can see how it can happen easy.


    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post

    Well, you can keep blaming everyone else for your shortcomings or for the decisions you take in life. Or, you could clearly comprehend why the rules have been formulated, and that any rule by its very existence will always give rise to an exception. Or you can also comprehend that some people will always find excuses for living outside the law.

    "BWF and their lousy round-robin system" (and I agree with your sentiment ) has nothing at all to do with the WADA rules and regulations. Why would you want to justify one act of wilful negligence with another act of incredible stupidity? I have read the WADA rules, and the BWF regulations, 2009 as well as the 2010 amendments. They look good. They are not impossible to comply with. They are not even a pain in the butt to comply with, else a lot of other prima donnas on the badminton circuit would be unavailable for testing.

    More to the point, they are necessary to ensure the game is kept clean -or at least as clean as possible. And again, the WADA and BWF initiative to educate players and associations and keep them updated with information and procedures is pretty well documented and executed.

    I'd love to find an excuse on behalf of the players, but in all fairness, I cannot. The bottom line is always, ignorance of the law does not excuse. And to be honest, the players or association in this regard weren't exactly ignorant of the law, either. They were just plain negligent (you could even insert another word in vogue on forums: "arrogant") or just chose to not take it seriously enough.
    ??
    You have no Idea how many "prima donnas" have been caught out missing tests, only usually hits the headlines when 3 happen. Maybe the percentage of testers turning up to tests being missed is high in badminton. Maybe LYD and KKJ are the first people that signed up to Adams to be visited(in badminton) you just don't. Please share these facts with us, if i am wrong I apologise.

    Also the excuse for players part, I can find one. Associations rule in badminton. In my opinion BWF and Wada should have made sure the actual individuals (players) were trained on this directly as it is ultimately them who have to take the punishment. I have the feeling associations will shelter their players quite a lot, therefore if the BKA shelter the players you can not expect them to be wise to all of this stuff, and in this case BKA mess up player gets punished.I don't like it.

    I very much doubt LYD was strutting about in full knowledge of all this thinking he was bigger than it all.

  6. #74
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    ^ WADA report of 2012 test figures.
    http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Re...-Report-EN.pdf

    Search keyword "badminton" and it comes up pretty clean.

    Please read post #172 above.
    The point of missing tests is that to qualify for a sanction, as you know, you must miss not just one, or two, but 3 within a 18-month period. You can go through the link I had posted above. It is very clear.
    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file.aspx?id=529036&dl=1
    You miss one, it's fair to assume you are sent a no-show notice and a warning about the consequences. That's how the system works.

    The list of players to be made available is prepared by BWF and published. I think it would only be fair to assume that BWF also informs the concerned associations and players. As for "associations sheltering their players", would you care to show me some other examples of this happening "quite a lot"? I'm not disputing that BKA may be guilty of screwing up here in this case, but how do you explain the fact that a player on the RTP who has filed his whereabouts information and who has received notices of no-show still manages to make himself unavailable for the critical third test as well?

    You're assuming that WADA/BWF have not educated the players and associations? You're assuming the players are unaware of their responsibility in this matter? Perhaps we should ask some pro players or coaches to weigh in on this subject with their knowledge as well.

    On another note, it is interesting that Craig Reedie is a VP on the IOC table, as well as having been recently elected to President of WADA.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...ug-cheats.html

    Interesting excerpt:
    "Reedie's quiet powers of persuasion got badminton into the Commonwealth Games and Olympics, helped win London the 2012 Games, got himself appointed to the IOC executive and now elected Wada president."
    Last edited by cobalt; 02-08-2014 at 01:41 PM.

  7. #75
    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    I can't see the figures of how many missed tests via testers showing up under the whereabouts system in badminton. I also can;t see who got tested with regards with whereabouts system routine and who just got tested normally in competition etc, but maybe I don't get the document.

    With regards to sheltering. I have read several times about how the big associations take care of a lot of the players life. They organize everything from training to flights, food, hotel etc etc. LYD for instance has been in the team from a very young age therefore will not have developed the same "savvy" in life as other independent athletes at his age or just people in general. In badminton particularly Associations have a heavy influence for players and not many players are independent. I think that LYD/KKJ have relied on BKA for filling out their ADAMS stuff in the same way that they have been cultured to rely on them for everything else. In this respect I have great empathy for these two young guys.

    You can see how they do it in other sports like cycling, cyclists in teams get suspended from the team after 2 tests untill they sort themselves out and make their last test and it is clearly the individuals responsibility.

    Would be nice to get some pro players from China or Korea team to weigh in to see just how much is taken care for them, and how much they promote their players to take responsibility of their own life and consequences that result.
    Last edited by craigandy; 02-08-2014 at 02:39 PM.

  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    I'd love to find an excuse on behalf of the players, but in all fairness, I cannot.
    It's because you are confusing law with justice.

  9. #77
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigH-Max View Post
    It's because you are confusing law with justice.
    LOL. Nice one! However, it's actually because I am clear about responsibility and passing the buck. But when it comes to opinions, everyone has one, doesn't he? Associations are composed of individuals, but it's strange how the individual is never at fault. (and that's my opinion for the day.)

  10. #78
    Regular Member craigandy's Avatar
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    Lets face it, in badminton you are not even allowed to enter competitions if you are not in good standing with your association. They rule in this sport much different to most other sports.
    If an individual in a company follows bad procedures in place and causes an accident in work, Health and safety officers don't go after him.
    The reduction from 2 to 1 years for BKA negligence shows everybody what really happened here.

  11. #79
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    Any updates to LYD/KKJ appeal?

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    I talked to somebody today who said that he believed both LYD and KKJ are indeed on steroids for 2 reasons:

    1 - He observed that on the past year both LYD and KKJ were smashing much harder than previously.
    2) He observed that KKJ's face suddenly was breaking out with acne

    Any comments? I haven't watched LYD and KKJ enough to notice either of these observations, but would be interested if anybody else has.

  13. #81
    Regular Member soulpx's Avatar
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    ^ i noticed the point number 2 too. but LYD smash still weak to me, at least for md.

  14. #82
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    Yes, i did notice acne on KKJ face in one of the tournament. If they are on roids, it may be for injury recovery or something. Certainly taking it long term would be easily detected. I would have submitted to immediate test upon BWF announcement of the suspension to clear doubts about doping. However, this will not reverse the course of action taken by BWF.

    Keeping quite over the long term does not help either.

  15. #83
    Regular Member volcom's Avatar
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    Agreed they could be on some stuff to accelerate repair from injury or to trtain harder in training without having to rest so much.
    They could be on EPO, SARMS, GH's and Peptides... and not definitely not the anabolic steroids such as masteron etc which would be backing on too much mass for them.

  16. #84
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    Does anyone knows what happens to Yoo? He was not punished but he end up not playing. He can't just wait for LYD for one year! The Korean association must find him a new partner.

  17. #85
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renbo View Post
    Does anyone knows what happens to Yoo? He was not punished but he end up not playing. He can't just wait for LYD for one year! The Korean association must find him a new partner.
    Has he done his compulsory 1yr military training yet? If not, this will be a good time...

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