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    Default Doubles: Back Partner Shadowing the Front Question

    Hi again,

    So I'm just watching this video about how the back person should shadow the front: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrfay9w1cA0

    It says that the back partner should almost always try to stand directly in a straight line behind the front person. So if front person move to the right front court, the back partner would move just behind him.

    However, if the back partner chooses to remain in the centre then a shot that gets pushed or drove past the front person in a straight line would be difficult for back partner to get.

    Your thoughts?

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    don't believe every crap you see on youtube...

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    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    The front person only moves in that direction maybe half way not all the way... or else you'll have a huge empty court exposed to the other side.

    And front back in a line in the middle, obviously you'll only keep this formation if you're attacking... if defending the front person has to choose a side to cover and the back person will automatically have to cover the other side.

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    I'd never heard of it (that back player should line up with front). It's more like the other way around. Front player should follow the shuttle to one side or the other. Even there, he's usually not committing into one side or the other, but with one foot touching the center line.

    The back player usually should remain centralized; after every shot, hop toward the center while waiting for opponents' reply.

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    Regular Member Wingu's Avatar
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    I think it's important not to cling TOO much to the side lines, especially the front player. If you put your partner that close to the side line all the time, chances are that you will miss cross court returns, even weaker ones. You don't want to stand in the middle but not too far out to the side either as the front player, you want to position yourself in such way that you can intercept cross court shots too. I think that positioning yourself between the single service line and the middle service line is more realistic (and adjust more to the right or left if needed to) if you want to intercept more shots. By doing this you still have good chances of intercepting straight and cross returns.

    And that the front person controls the rotation doesn't make any sense at all since a rotation can begin from behind as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingu View Post
    ...

    And that the front person controls the rotation doesn't make any sense at all since a rotation can begin from behind as well.
    Who else but the front player should initiate rotation? The one in the back,just running forward and the net player has to somehow magically feel that he's coming?

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    Regular Member Wingu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by |_Footwork_| View Post
    Who else but the front player should initiate rotation? The one in the back,just running forward and the net player has to somehow magically feel that he's coming?
    Um, rotation begins depending on what kind of returns come. You can't expect NOT to start a rotation should the back player smash and is in the best position to go forward in order to take a weak defense lob. This is also initiating a rotation, don't you think? Just as the back player has to take initiative in going forward, the front player can take initiative to take even weaker returns of which he can rotate backwards on. If the front player is going backwards then the back player is expected to rotate forward, and the same goes the other way around (front goes to the back and back goes to the front). Rotation isn't a one man's game, it's something that two players is needed for. You can't say that "This player controls the rotation" because of all the different and possible kinds of outsets.

    And no, you don't need to 'magically' feel that a rotation is starting. You read the game (I guess you could say feel here, but magically would be to exaggerate :-), watch the shuttle and know your partner. That's how you know when a rotation is beginning.
    Last edited by Wingu; 02-06-2014 at 02:33 AM.

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    I think we mean the same thing, but anyways:
    If the front player does not rotate (even though he maybe should!), the back player stays in the back. Therefore, the front player "decides" whether to rotate or not. Of course, this decision is based on judgement of the (expected) return, positioning of the back player, knowledge of each others strengths/weaknesses, habits as a pair... But for practical reasons (we don't have eyes in the back...;-)) the front player initiates rotation, never the back player by himself.

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    Regular Member Wingu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by |_Footwork_| View Post
    I think we mean the same thing, but anyways:
    If the front player does not rotate (even though he maybe should!), the back player stays in the back. Therefore, the front player "decides" whether to rotate or not. Of course, this decision is based on judgement of the (expected) return, positioning of the back player, knowledge of each others strengths/weaknesses, habits as a pair... But for practical reasons (we don't have eyes in the back...;-)) the front player initiates rotation, never the back player by himself.
    Well, that depends on how you look at it. Should the player at the net start rotating out and the player in the back doesn't, that would causes the same problem wouldn't it? I think there is too much emphasis on who controls what here. Rotation is a natural flow in the game rather than controlled by one player. My take on this is that it should be seen as a natural decision made by both the front and back player, not only one.

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    Thanks for the replies guys. It looks like there is indeed some disagreements about the concepts outlined in this vid. It looks like standing directly behind the front player in a straight line is not the 'ideal.' Instead one should position himself slightly to the left or right as opposed to straight line. This makes sense. I wonder why the video would say straight line anyways.

    Furthermore, thanks for some insights on the rotation and who initiates it and how it should be coordinated by both players and be situational.

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    IMHO:

    1. Both the front and rear player can initiate rotation. However, the rear player needs to call 'switch' to alert their partner that they're rotating. Communication removes the need for guessing.

    2. In attacking formations, both the front and rear player shadow one another to a lesser extent. I.e. if a player is returning in the side-trams, their partner is a couple of steps from the center line on the same side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Line & Length View Post
    IMHO:

    1. Both the front and rear player can initiate rotation. However, the rear player needs to call 'switch' to alert their partner that they're rotating. Communication removes the need for guessing.

    2. In attacking formations, both the front and rear player shadow one another to a lesser extent. I.e. if a player is returning in the side-trams, their partner is a couple of steps from the center line on the same side.

    Agreed, thanks!

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    Regular Member gundamzaku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdy View Post
    Hi again,

    So I'm just watching this video about how the back person should shadow the front: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrfay9w1cA0

    It says that the back partner should almost always try to stand directly in a straight line behind the front person. So if front person move to the right front court, the back partner would move just behind him.

    However, if the back partner chooses to remain in the centre then a shot that gets pushed or drove past the front person in a straight line would be difficult for back partner to get.

    Your thoughts?
    you're not really shadowing your front court partner, but on a attack position with your partner in the front and you in the rear, if your opponent drops, you are also anticipating their return prior to the drop, it could be a drive. so don't look at your partner and shadow him/her, but anticipate the next shot as if it's going thru your partner and come straight to you. then when you look at a video of yourself playing, you'll also noticed that you look like you're shadowing your partner, but in fact you were just getting ready for the next shot :P

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    Regular Member gundamzaku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by |_Footwork_| View Post
    don't believe every crap you see on youtube...

    agreed, the video is crap! mainly because if you're watching where your partner is and shadowing him/her, then you're not paying much attention to the shuttle or your opponents!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gundamzaku View Post
    you're not really shadowing your front court partner, but on a attack position with your partner in the front and you in the rear, if your opponent drops, you are also anticipating their return prior to the drop, it could be a drive. so don't look at your partner and shadow him/her, but anticipate the next shot as if it's going thru your partner and come straight to you. then when you look at a video of yourself playing, you'll also noticed that you look like you're shadowing your partner, but in fact you were just getting ready for the next shot :P
    I see! Thanks!

    Wonder why the video would tell you to stand in a straight line behind your partner. It mentioned something about if you stand in the centre and your partner even stands left or right in the front, then shots that get passed pass straight over your partner would be difficult to get. But I don't see how this could be true. If you stand in the centre in the back, you can still get those shots..

    but of course, what you want is to attack quickly anything that gets passed your front partner so I guess standing directly behind your front partner anticipating a weak straight lift or return would be best for these instances?

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