China vs Msia

Discussion in 'Thomas/Uber Cups 2004' started by Bbn, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    I think match results show a lot of glaring weaknesses in China team and China must surely thank Msia for exposing all these weaknesses :

    1) Ch although far below his best must learn to adapt to opponent and not assume that opposite number never improve.Roslin was controlling pace and hitting outrageous shots and CH just followed.Same for LD against Lee.

    2) Sang Yang /Zhang Bo. skill and speed not everything. Emulating Korean style one thing but must also cope with MSIA/INa style.1st set all their drives were cut off at net. In 2 nd more lifts found Lee and Chew waiting gratefully at base to pump down bird.Just as Yap said very poor tactically and in variety.

    All in All Msia players were a better lot,tactically and skills -wise lost because of fielding greenhorns.

    Playing Thomas Cup is a different ball game. One can also say that Msia better prepared but China players yet to peak, you cant win all, hav eto choose tournaments.
     
  2. wilfredlgf

    wilfredlgf Regular Member

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    It's heartening to see that Lee Chong Wei is growing up to become a player he's expected to be and I would forgive him for fumbling at the second set due to inexperience.

    I would assume that Lin Dan played against more world class opponents compared to him as LCW had just begun to play in international tournaments only of late.

    With more experience, I'll gather that he will no longer be a victim of pressure and over-respecting his opponents, and start to truly challenge the 'big boys' on a level playing field.

    Interesting to see that the qualifier finals is very much a preview of what is to come in the future, with both teams putting their faith on youngsters, although it is not right to say that the Malaysians young dudes are of the same class as the Chinese.

    Malaysia
    - Lee Chong Wei
    - Kuan Beng Hong
    - Gan Teik Chai/Khoo Kien Tat

    China
    - Bao Chunlai
    - Lin Dan
    - Sang Yang/Zheng Bo

    Comparing the two will undoubtedly point to the fact that if this were a 3-on-3 game, a 0 - 3 whitewash is almost expected, with the greatest resistance to come from perhaps only LCW, who, if he manage to overcome that 'shyness' and 'respect' for the opponents, will be a match for both Lin and Bao.

    Sang/Zheng are already very good, but as Bbn had noted, they lack variety and I agree - their games had all been about speed and power, which is not the way to win against more experienced foes who are wiser to such tactics. I commend player such as Pramote Teerawiwatana who is already really old who could hold his own together with Tesana Panvisas against Sang/Zheng in Bandung last year as they played a smarter game compared to their power-crazy young opponents.

    If they keep at that, then they'll be out of ideas in 2 - 3 years and when that happens, it will be a slow way downwards.

    Is anything bothering Chen Hong? He seemed to be a shadow of the person who was #1 last year.
     
  3. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Based on yeaterdays performance against Lin Dan it looks like

    Lee Chong Wei if all goes well will take up where Ong Ewe Hock left off.

    When Wong Choon Han leaves, Msia will have very dangerous players like

    Lee Chong Wei and Hafiz who are going to create many upsets.

    There is still a place for Malaysian style /brand of singles.
     
  4. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    I was at the KLBA Stadium since Friday evening and enjoyed yesterday's China vs Msia Finals the most. I thought the tactical switch by Msia did much damage to China and at the same time gave the younger Msian lads a chance to experience the tremendous atmosphere.

    I found myself sitting next to the yellow shirted Msian supporters and was drawn into shouting 'slogans' and blowing the 'horn', a sound contraption made out of the Coca Cola can pierced with a hole as mouth-piece. I joined the chorus in singing "Malaysia Boleh" when Msian players were 'up' and "It's OK, It's OK" when they are 'down'.

    But my contribution had been rewarding for Roslin Hashim put up such a determined fight, having to dive not a few times to save a point, against world number 1, Chen Hong, that completely left the latter flabbergasted and demoralised in just two straight games. Coach Misbun must have figured it better not to field Choon Hann as first singles since he had lost many times to Chen Hong. The psychological ploy had worked!

    Whilst China's second singles, Lin Dan, is ranked much higher than Lee Chong Wei, the latter gave him a big scare by winining the first game. Often times, Lin Dan had to dive full stretch to try to save a point and his face, although he manged to force a rubber and win the match subsequently. Lin Dan showed some tantrums on the court for not being able to return some shots and for arguing on line calls. I agree that LCW can improve further given more international exposure, like Lin Dan.

    In the second doubles too, Msia created a stir when experienced Lee Wan Wah did not have his usual 'erratic' partner, Choong Tan Fook, but instead partnered with Chew Choon Eng as a 'scratched' pair. They surprised everyone when they convincingly defeated China's world ranking pair of Sang Yang and Zhang Bo in straight games. Again, Msia had another psychological success.

    So in the end, although China beat Malaysia 3-2, it is actually the latter which was the ultimate winner - in experience, in hospitality, in bringing its people together to support a truly national sport and in promoting badminton international, for the TC is an international event.

    It had been a tiring three days for me, but the experience was worth it. As a bonus, I got to know the Cheras vicinity much better and spent a little time travelling on the Putra LRT trains. The big Pudu Pasar (market), which is just opposite my hotel, is a sea of activity during weekends.
     
    #4 Loh, Feb 22, 2004
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2004
  5. spectra

    spectra Regular Member

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    well the yellow shirt team is called famemas... something like a supporting team for all sports... they went to vietnam for the sea games before to cheer on the malaysia team... :D organise by Samsung...

    yeah....as what i read in the newspaper...wch injured his muscle spasms on his lower back...that's why he's not field during the final...

    oh my...a person who's not from kuala lumpur come all the way to klba to watch the action....makes me felt so ashame...

    i'll give roslin and chew choon eng and lee wan wah tumbs up for their exciting and explosive ( chew / lee) performance ^_^

    :D
     
  6. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Spectra

    I hope you were there during the finals, otherwise you certainly missed all the excitement.

    No wonder, the cheer leader, who was draped in the Msian flag attire and songkok (Muslim cap), mentioned Samsung by name many times. I suppose Samsung must have supported Msian sports many times before, as in the SEA Games, but they were not listed as one of the sponsors in the offical TC/UB programme. There was another 'official' cheer team dressed in resplendent green/yellow uniform with matching scarves for the ladies, pompoms and large placards each denoting a letter of the word "BOLEH" (M'sia "Can"). They were led by a racket wielding man-size Tiger mascot and were given special seating on the playing court level, much better treated than the Samsung team. Both teams contributed to the electrifying atmosphere. At times these two cheer teams were at loggerheads although they were separated at almost extreme opposite ends, at other times they created a 'joking' relationship, but many times they complemented each other. It was nice fun to be with either teams although I had no choice but to support the yellow shirts by virtue of close proximity.

    I hope that my KLBA visit will encourage you to support your Msian teams (both men and ladies) especially when they play at home. On the second day, I happened to sit near your up-and-coming lady star, Wong Mew Choo, when she was interviewed and I also had a chance to talk to her. I think this is a good incentive for badminton die-hards like all true BFers!

    And once a while, you do get a rare chance to watch badminton surprises such as the epic battle between Thailand's Boonsak Polsana and Hong Kong's Ng Wei and the power play between Wong Choon Hann and Korea's Shon Seung Mo.

    So don't stay home, go out and watch!
     
  7. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    You mean Pasar Road? Well the market is a horrible place, good chance to catch

    some kind of bird flu, but the electronic component shops along the main road are what makes the place famous.
     
  8. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Re: -

    Now that you mentioned it, it is true that the place needs a good clean up to rid of the mud dirt and the smell. It does look rather 'unhygenic' but still it draws huge crowds. Yes it is Pasar Road and there is a sheltered wet market at one end with the name "Besar Pudu Pasar", I think. But outside of this market about four huge dumb trucks meant for rubbish and some more nearby, stood permanently in the open making quite an unhealthy sight.

    The surprising thing is that Pasar Road was empty and dead quiet when I visited it again after the evenings' TC match at about 10 pm, quite unlike the 'mad house' atmosphere in the early morning. It is something like Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde, complete opposites. I walked the entire stretch and ended up eating 'Bak Kut Teh' for supper.

    To think that there are hawkers and coffee shops in the area plus some apartments with residents, it must be just sheer adjustment to the environment and something special, like the electric component shops you mentioned, that made them continue to stay there.

    But during normal market hours, hawkers and the itinerant peddlars make good money. Some unfortunate ones were fined by the police, presumably for not having a licence to sell. But the myriad make-shift stalls and wares make for a delightful sight for a first-time visitor like me.
     
  9. ants

    ants Regular Member

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    Loh : glad that you enjoyed your trip in Msia and the experience of watching badminton in Msia. Too bad i'm not in Msia.. i'm sure definately will join you.

    Anyway its great to hear that overall malaysia did well even they lost to China 3-2.
    However playing on home ground is also another factor Msia did well in the competition. If its in other country , the story might be different. Anyway at least now we know where is our strength and weaknesses. Thumbs up for both Mens and Womens of Msia. Malaysia Boleh!
     
  10. spectra

    spectra Regular Member

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    i didn't watch the exciment...cause i saw the match at home on natinoal tv...and did the score update for 1st 2 matches and sometimes leave the bfer on suspense... hahaha...

    yeah...samsung is not the sponsors...that's why only get the audience seats but they got the half price for the tickets... as for the tiget mascot...that's under maybank..it's one of the sponsors...that's why get up close seats...

    well even if i sit next to them i have nothing to ask....cause i don't know what to ask!!!! last time when i went to watch the elite challenge...i get really upclose with alot of our fellow national player ... like chong wei...choong hann ( met hin TONS of times even in shopping mall ) ...mew choo ...tsuen seng....hafiz...roslin ...and others..... but didn't talk to them or anything....just look at each other only... hahaha.... then i got to met kuan beng hong when my friend bring us out and eat... that time i didn't knew who was he...then we introduce each other...but i forgot to get his phone number!!! damn.... only got to took picture with him...and the best part...my other friends camera...got no battery...so...too bad....the pix was blur... :( but anyway..he looked more cute in real life than on tv....hehehehe

    even if i wanted to go and watch...at lease i have 1 of my friend with me then only i'll go...if not...i dare not to go....unless my friend bring me in and let me have the vip seat...haha..then is a different story :p
     
  11. yling

    yling Regular Member

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    malaysian team always have a group of youngsters who is able to give us surprise by producing unexpected result
    lee chong wei is an example for this china vs msia final

    but it seems to be a "tradition" where they can never maintain their standard for long...
    there are not few examples of young players who successfully created a name for their name, but unable to keep their good name for long..

    i wish and hope that msia can really produce youngster who are really really devoted to badminton and can really do us proud, a real badminton player who we can rely on him after the retirement of wong choon hann, roslin in a few years later ^^
     
  12. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Malaysia's TC Participation Record

    Actually to be fair, Malaysia has been carrying on a relatively strong tradition of world class badminton for its men's team if we take into account its record with the Thomas Cup competition. I can't say the same for its women's team though, as far as the Uber Cup is concerned.

    Although the idea of a Men's World Championships was first mooted by the IBF in 1939 and a challenge trophy donated by its then President, Sir George Thomas, was accepted, plans were held back because of the outbreak of the 2nd World War. As a result, the TC event began only in 1948, almost a decade later, and was thus far contested 22 times, the last in 2002 in Guangzhou which was won by Indonesia, with Malaysia being the Runners-up.

    Since 1984, the TC was carried out every 2 years and participation has grown from its inaugural meeting of 10 competing teams in Preston, UK, about 56 years ago, during which Malaysia (then known as Malaya) participated and won the Cup, to 50 teams in 2002, with a record 60 in 1998, the finals of which was held in Hong Kong. I think this year's TC participation must have broken all records as I read of new country names from outside Asia which are participating, although I have no statistics to prove. I don't think Malaysia missed any of these competitions.

    Regarding Malaysia's strength and performance, which indirectly gives you an idea of its commitment and strong tradition in the game, out of the 22 TC competitions held thus far, Malaysia appeared in 13 Finals and won 5 of them. Now this must be more than a creditable performance and Malaysia must have invested quite a bit in grooming its men team over all these years and the players must have responded well to feature in so many finals, despite increased competition, especially when China broke into the scene later and first won the TC in 1981. Hitherto China was not an IBF member and therefore did not participate.

    Of course, none can surpass the superiority of Indonesia, this year's TC Finals host in May in Jakarta. Indonesia participated in 17 Finals and secured a record of 13 wins, the last 5 were consecutive successes. That's the reason why Indonesia is not leaving any stones unturned to retain the TC and is making solid preparations. As the TC will be played on home ground, Indonesia is hot favourite to win the Cup once again. For one has not only to beat the Indonesian players but also the vociferous home supporters, a sample of which was seen at the recent TC qualifiers at KLBA!

    China, although on paper appears to have the strongest team, will not find Indonesia easy meat. China has done well so far by winning 4 out of 6 TC Finals but as its recent encounter with Malaysia in the TC qualifiers finals has shown, it had a hard time beating Malaysia's relatively under-strength team.

    It is never easy to produce a world champion. Skills itself is not enough. Passion, commitment to the goal, the consummate will to win and long hours of training and self-discipline are necessary ingredients to achieve ultimate success. And success often doesn't come quickly. It requires one to go through trials and tribulations, to test one's mental steelness and patience. Therefore to expect a youngster to possess all these qualities when they are still in their teens or early adulthood may be asking too much. Yes, in the past there were such rare champions like Rudy Hartono of Indonesia, who is now on the IBF Board, and who won the All-England a record 8 times. And to think that an athlete's active life-span is rather short, not normally surpassing 30 years' of age, especially for badminton, too much of which can cause a variety of injuries to the limbs, muscles and the rest of the body, there needs to be a constant flow of younger players to take over.

    So when the national badminton player's career is over, what can he do. Exceptional ones like Malaysia's current coaches Misbun Sidek and Yap Kim Hock turned to coaching. Therefore it is not easy for a youngster to take up badminton seriously as a professional, although I think Malaysia treats its national players well and try to fit them into a job after their national service.

    So, in conclusion, under the circumstances, I think Malaysia has done relatively well in continuing to produce a world class men badminton team.
     
    #12 Loh, Feb 23, 2004
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2004
  13. wilfredlgf

    wilfredlgf Regular Member

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    Gone were the days when only China's 2nd doubles are the weak link in the squad.

    I can remember the fondly the generation of legendary lefthanders; Yang Yang, Zhao Jianhua, Xiong Guobao; as well as Han Jian and the formidable Li Yongbo/Tian Bingyi. These were the teams to send fear into the hearts of the other competitors; by mentioning the name alone, the game is already halfway won. The Great Wall was super-strong at that time. Legendary.

    Now? Nothing is ever so certain anymore, but they are closer to being the strongest team since that mentioned above, with a mix of fabulously experienced players and remarkable talent. Add that to the awesome partnership of Cai/Fu as well as the young stars of Sang/Zheng.

    A first Thomas Cup since 92' is almost a certainty. A crowd favourite (unless you are Indonesian or Taiwanese).

    For once, I'm convinced that Korea could (read:could) actually win the cup, as long as one of their singles win a point, and I can see Lee Hyun-Il as the most potent threat to any of the singles out there, including the Chinese. What's more, with their doubles virtually assured of two points, winning a tie is now a greater possibility than it was many years ago. They used to depend on Park/Kim for one certain point, while shaky in the other four, but that has changed now. One singles point, two doubles - a tie is won. Enough.

    If Kim/Ha and Lee/Yoo remain as the kingpins in the doubles and if Lee HI strike a vein of gold, then ... South Korea are champions for the first time.

    For once, I fear Korea... :)

    Indonesia is playing at home, yes. Their opponents will be playing against two singles and three doubles players at one time. The extra person is the crowd. Being home, seemed to accord them some mythical spirit that bring about great performance from their charges who may otherwise had an average year. And what more to say about the lineup? Halim/Candra, Limpele/Eng Hian, Trikush/Sigit, Sony as well as the fiery Taufik, as well as emerging Simon.

    Peril be to the one to underestimate this 'weakened' team. They may just pull the rug under any team and get away with the big prize. And I expect them to do just that. :)

    Malaysia. Sensitive issue, especially to fellow Malaysians. Apart from Choon Hann, I am not too sure where the other points will come from. True, Lee CW had improved tremendously since shoved into the limelight, but he is young and inexperienced compared to the others. Yet, it was heartening to see him play like a man twice his size, close to humbling players greater than himself.

    Doubles? I think I'll leave this to others... :D

    Denmark? My opinion is that the Thomas Cup won't be going to the Scandinavian countries yet. At least for a little while longer. Sorry, don't follow Danish badminton... :)
     
    #13 wilfredlgf, Feb 23, 2004
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2004
  14. spectra

    spectra Regular Member

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    Malaysia's badminton player always can't stay on form... whenever they got to the top... they flop easily... or they might perform well in one tournament... but crash out in the early round of the next tourney...

    i'm just wondering is it that hard to maintain their performance??
    hmmm.....

    but no matter how...i still give my full support to the malaysian team :D
     
  15. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Now, now, don't you agree that the TC is getting more interesting by the day?

    China, on paper appears to be the strongest with three remarkable singles players and 2 fast-improving doubles team. Not discounting Xia, another of their more experienced singles player who can beat anybody when he is in form and out of injury.

    Yet Malaysia has shown over the weekend that even without Choong Hann and their first doubles pair, they gave China a run for their money almost defeating them by one match instead, had the less experienced Chong Wei taken his chances better against Lin Dan.

    And as mentioned by wilfredlgf, Korea is certainly in contention with two very strong doubles pairs and their outstanding Lee Hyun Il in singles.

    Denmark, the European Champion, cannot be discounted as they have 3 world class singles players and another two world class doubles players, including last year's WC winners, Lars and JR. All of these players can beat any Asian player when they in peak form.

    Finally, host Indonesia, as we all know has the best chance to retain the title as they will be playing on home ground in front of their very own vocal supporters. The problem of Taufik and his previous coach, Joko, had been solved with a masterful stroke by the legendary Rudy Hartono when he recalled Taufik's favourite coach, Mulyo, back from Singapore! And the breaking up of doubles specialists, Candra and Sigit, is producing the desired result.

    The more I look at at it, I like it! That is speaking from the viewpoint of a spectator. Every match will be hard-fought, with no quarters given nor contemplated! Spectacular! Awe-inspiring! Unimaginable! The victor most probably will emerge from those who become quickly adapted to the situation and continue to be in great form. Who else comes to mind but the home-grown favourite, Indonesia!

    Despite the threat of disorder during the TC Finals in Jakarta as it will be election time for the Indonesians, the prospect of watching the competitions there seems irresistible. I hope to be there come May!
     

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